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Old Creek

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I am wondering, what would the hunter spending a few days out of base camp taken with him as far as cooking gear goes? and would the average man carried coffee and a way to brew it when solo away from camp for a few days?? i am just putting some things together and from hiking myself it seems to me the man who lives by his feet and legs aint carrying anything that dont get used more than once or twice. my pack got lighter and lighter and with modern gear i could get by with 20 pounds for several days unless i had to haul water which is pretty rare in these parts if you have a way to filter it.

thanks.

creek
 
considering you just boil the coffee in the water why not take some? They'd sometimes put it in a linen bag I understand to boil but otherwise not and just drink slowly not to suck up grinds from what settles to the bottom...
 
Prev thread on corn boilers has a photo of black hands cook set. I use about the same set myself. Get you a tin cup or two if you want a kettle for soup and a cup of coffee. Small 1 qt pots are avalible. The muket or corn boiler is thought to be a new invention but little tin kettles or pots were had in the old days,and companies like turkey foot traders has a nice nested set.I find a frying pan of very limited use while trecking and don't often carry it. I tend to eat soup or hasty pudding on the trail.
I tend to drink tea on the trail, boil and drink in one cup as my other is cooking.
 
Some authors who lived in the flint era say that coffee or tea wasn't used by frontiersmen. I like gunpowder tea for my caffeine fix when trekking, as it's easy to carry and make, compared to coffee. You can find good prices on it in Indian and Armenian ethnic food stores. "Colonial sutlers" charge way too much (imho).

Avoid brick-tea, as it's a reenactorism.

LD
 
thanks fellas, i got my question answered despite leaving out that it was prompted by a earlier post concerning the corn boiler being a more recent invention.

thanks again.

creek.
 
Gunpowder tea obviously having nothing to do with shooters and guns and pressed tea has literally been sold that way, in bricks, for THOUSANDS of years.
 
Loyalist Dave said:
Some authors who lived in the flint era say that coffee or tea wasn't used by frontiersmen. I like gunpowder tea for my caffeine fix when trekking, as it's easy to carry and make, compared to coffee. You can find good prices on it in Indian and Armenian ethnic food stores. "Colonial sutlers" charge way too much (imho).

Avoid brick-tea, as it's a reenactorism.

LD

Tea wasn't around?? What do they think was littering Boston harbor? Some of the things people come up with... :shake:

A quick look at any frontier trade list will show large--and I mean LARGE---quantities of both coffee and tea, available to any frontiersman or Indian that wanted either. And, judging from the quantities listed, most wanted plenty.

I agree on the brick tea, it was around for centuries, but was an item of trade in Mongolia and southern Siberia, not North America.

Rod
 
and pressed tea has literally been sold that way, in bricks, for THOUSANDS of years.

And so was the wok, and neither are found in any records for sale in North America in the flint era.

Folks I didn't write that tea and coffee weren't consumed, only that in a couple of journals the author's recollection was they weren't used on the frontier... we seem to think everybody drank some sort of hot beverage.., the folks who wrote the journals or memoirs thought nobody did, for example...

"Tea and coffee were only slops, which was in the adage of the day "did not stick to the ribs." The idea was they were designed only for people of quality, who do not labor, or the sick. A genuine backwoodsman would have thought himself disgraced by showing fondness for those slops. Indeed, many of them have, to this day, very little respect for them." [emphasis added]
Joseph Doddridge, Early Settlement and Indian Wars of Western Virginia and Pennsylvania p.90

LD
 
...And yet, the Baynton, Wharton, & Morgan ledgers show them selling hundreds of pounds of coffee & tea to them. Doddridge's accounts are valuable, but they are a secondary source.

Rod
 
Actually Doddridge is a primary source, as his is a first hand account, the time of the recording of the account notwithstanding. He recollects his first experience with coffee during the revolutionary war at his age of 6 (1775) and how bad an experience it was for him. His account, however, is only about what he knew from his small community west of Hagerstown, Maryland. That leaves the rest of Maryland, plus 12 other colonies where he has no information.

Again, my comments were simply against the modern notion that everybody drank coffee, tea, or some hot substitute.

LD
 
The Doddridge book (published in 1824) is composed of recollections from decades after the time noted on the book (1763-1783), and by all appearances, 2nd hand information; he was born in 1769, making him -6 years old in 1763 and 14 in 1783... http://www.wvencyclopedia.org/print/Article/1938

It doesn't diminish his writings, but to say it is a primary source may be stretching the definition of "primary"...
 
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I just read a book a cpl months ago called Ten Tea Parties: Patriotic Protests That History Forgot by Joseph Cummins

The 1st part of the book talks about the tea in general and the author stated that brick tea was exactly what was dumped in the harbors. I never thought about different types of tea dumped til I read this book. He also goes into the different ways people in the colonies used the tea from drinking it to boiliing the leaves until reconstitued and throwing the liguid out and eating the left over leaves as a meal.
 
It doesn't diminish his writings, but to say it is a primary source may be stretching the definition of "primary"...

Not at all. I deal with first hand accounts aka "primary" sources, in my job on a daily basis, and have been doing so for more than two decades. (Saying something is a first had account is not saying it is flawless.) So I have learned why some accounts are vague (even when freshly recounted) and why some are spot-on, decades later.

So, while you may with some certainty question the timing of some of his recollections for part of the book, and if you read the book he does at times make clear when he is recounting what he was taught and had not actually experienced ; in this case, he is recollecting the very first time he was sent away from his family, for formal schooling, and with that was his first experience with coffee, and that experience was dreadful. A traumatic time with bad experiences are often much more correct in recollection than simple day to day experiences. So from what was written, he had lived in a community, but had never experienced nor even seen coffee, giving credence to his additional recollection that where he lived, such beverages were disdained.

There is much more credence in this case to understand he is not making a universal claim for all of the colonies, but for his experience, it is very credible.

LD
 
It may be more of a time & place issue than anything else--what may be true for one small group (or even individual) may not be true for the larger group as a whole. Micro versus macro, as it were. One guy or small group of guys doesn't drink tea or coffee, and records the fact, versus the majority that do, but never write about it. To see the question clearly, one has to look at all the sources available. Just as today, there are plenty of people that seldom drink hot drinks, and plenty that do---more of an individual thing (I'm not much of a coffee drinker, but way she swills it I think my wife owns stock in Folger's :haha: ). But, generally speaking, it wasn't because the items weren't available (although time & place dictates that), if there's a demand, traders often did their best to fill it---as the ledgers indicate. The fun of research eh?

As far as brick tea goes, I too had read authors that state that brick tea was shipped to America---but I've yet to see any positive evidence of it. I've also seen some very knowledgable researchers state that only loose leaf tea was sent this way---Dr. James Hanson of the Museum of the Fur Trade, for instance, has done extensive research into this very question and his results indicate that it was only loose leaf tea shipped to America.

Rod
 
It may also be a confusion of terms also. Brick tea being very compressed while loose tea was packed tight in to "bricks".Lots of tea was being moved on to the frontier, to Trading post and in to the rendezvous for it not to have been consummed.HBC had its own tins made.
 
Can't say about the 19th century only the 18th century, but block tea is just that... a block, that has to be sawed into smaller pieces or grated. There are no references to it being imported, nor are there any references to tea graters being sold. There are plenty of references to various loose teas, how to brew them, and to the equipment used to brew with them.

It's a reenactorism... since it existed in one part of the world for centuries, and since there was trade with that part of the world, ergo we must have had it..., but it doesn't show up.

Like the claims that the Chinese invented what we would recognize today as Ice Cream, and that Marco Polo brought the information back with him when he returned. Or that the Romans invented ice cream, or that the Arabs or Greeks or Persians invented it..., when all of the actual evidence points to Florence Italy in the 17th century, or possibly... the same location at the end of the 16th century.

LD
 
Loyalist Dave said:
and since there was trade with that part of the world, ergo we must have had it..., but it doesn't show up.
...and how did peanuts and chili peppers get in 5,000 year old Chinese cooking ingredients found in tombs when Columbus didn't discover North America till 1492!!??? :shocked2: :wink: :rotf:
 
Yes you right "brick tea" dosn't seam to have been imported to the Americas. Brick is very compressed. Loose tea transported was packed tight in bags so it could be easy to transport. These "bricks" were loose tea that was fluffy when the bag was opened. Brick tea there,loose tea in false "bricks" here.
Confused yet? I think ther is a groung coffee on todays market thats in vacume packe bags that relaxes when opened.
 
...and how did peanuts and chili peppers get in 5,000 year old Chinese cooking ingredients found in tombs when Columbus didn't discover North America till 1492!!???

Are you suggesting that brick tea grows that way?

The peanut was introduced to China by the Portuguese in the 17th century, as were the chili peppers. I have no idea where you got the idea that they were cultivated in China 5,000 years ago.

LD
 

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