Conical vs. round ball for whitetails

[gonpce]

I have killed deer with both prb and conical, both kill deer but there is no doubt that the conical hits harder. Deer hit with prb run a short distance, conical hit the ground. Both work, use what you like.

 

[tg]

". Deer hit with prb run a short distance, conical hit the ground."

I am not doubting your experience and do not know how many animals we are talking about but overall this has not been the case reported by users of both projectiles over a long period of time, often with Elk the edge has gone to the PRB

 

[smoothy]

I use round ball exclusively now. I'm not familiar with the GPR. But whatever it shoots best is what I'd use. And if you are more interested in bagging a deer at longer distances than you are in period correctness, the conical may do it better ballistically speaking.

 

[armymedic.2]

jeez guys. read what the man said.
its not always about "learn to stalk better" and "get closer"

i took deer with my flintlock and flintlock pistol this past year, off hand with my moccassins on, walking around like a "real hunter"

i have also shot an 8 in its bed with an ar-15, and taken deer from 500- 670 yards with my 308. this past monday i rang the gong at 1100 yards with my open sight stock garand. clearly some people (myself included) enjoy shooting weapons to their potential, but can also enjoy slipping on the foot leather and stalking their quarry. I take offense for him that he asks a ballistics question and gets the "get closer" rhetoric from many, and some who i imagine "get closer" by climbing a tree and waiting.........

out of line of sight, above wind line, and camoed.........whats it matter if he is 50, 100 or 600 yards when the lead strikes?



ay- "should he" was not his question, terminal performance at that range was--- rant off-

apologies.......-rant off

I have no facts to base this off of but i am pert darn sure if you put one through the ribcage with that gun you will be doin more than just fine. enjoy your hunt. if your eyes will do it, send it home.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

In other words.... Just shut up and shoot what you want? :rotf:

jeez guys. read what the man said.
its not always about "learn to stalk better" and "get closer"

i took deer with my flintlock and flintlock pistol this past year, off hand with my moccassins on, walking around like a "real hunter"

i have also shot an 8 in its bed with an ar-15, and taken deer from 500- 670 yards with my 308. this past monday i rang the gong at 1100 yards with my open sight stock garand. clearly some people (myself included) enjoy shooting weapons to their potential, but can also enjoy slipping on the foot leather and stalking their quarry. I take offense for him that he asks a ballistics question and gets the "get closer" rhetoric from many, and some who i imagine "get closer" by climbing a tree and waiting.........

out of line of sight, above wind line, and camoed.........whats it matter if he is 50, 100 or 600 yards when the lead strikes?



ay- "should he" was not his question, terminal performance at that range was--- rant off-

apologies.......-rant off

I have no facts to base this off of but i am pert darn sure if you put one through the ribcage with that gun you will be doin more than just fine. enjoy your hunt. if your eyes will do it, send it home.

 

[armymedic.2]

:thumbsup:

 

[aeatwood]

1) lower, slower recoil. A hunting load w/ a conical is going to kick the snot out of you.

2) Much less lead.

3) A HUNTING load w/ PRB (100-120gr 2F) should be good to 100-125 yards. If you are using pure lead, the penetration is better at 125 than it is at 50, because the ball doesn't deform as much at the lower velocity.

4) if your ball dia., patch, and lube are right, you can shoot all day w/o swabbing the gun. The downside to this is it may take a good bit of shooting to work that out. The upside is that it may take a good bit of shooting to work that out. :rotf:

5) RB is much easier to cast, and then it is ready to shoot, vs. sizing and lubing the conical.

You literally just need a ladle, a mould, and a pot to turn out excellent RBs. And you can shoot for 2-3 days for what it costs for one blister pack of the store-bought conicals.

6) You don't have to cast from pure lead. Anything from range scrap to Wheelweights will make perfectly acceptable balls. In fact, the harder alloys will drastically help penetration at close range where pure lead would have a tendency to flatten out.

 

[Walks with fire]

I look at it this way for whitetail deer and I didn't always think this way on it but it's pretty hard to beat the simplicity and effectivenes of a patched ball. I once believed in the energy of a conical and bullet loads and had to try them for myself and now it's roundball only.

If I were to take shots at deer beyond 100 yards I would choose a well stoked .54 caliber ball. I shoot a .50 now and keep it under 80 yards before I tickle the trigger; with an accurate .54 I would go 125 if I could hit with it.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I've used .58 cal minies in my springfield for deer hunting and had no issues. They seem to do a better job in taking down a deer versus PRB's but thats MHO.

All the deer I, and my wife, have killed with a muzzle loader have been with a .45 cal. pure lead patched round ball and relatively mild charge of 65 gr. bp. All either fell dead where they stood or went no more than two steps.
But, I'll acknowledge, many guys have difficulty changing their thinking from modern guns to the antique style of shooting ml with patched round balls.
Those "long range" ideas are mostly nonsense. I watch TV also and have seen Jim Shockey take shots with his so-called muzzle loader across several states. Yep, TV trying to sell stuff. Fact is, a "long range" shot with a heavy conical is difficult. With the trajectory they have the conical bullet is really sorta falling down on (or in the neighborhood of) the target, not at it.
If ye want to do modern, do modern. A round ball is great out to 100 yards on a whitetail. (that is my self-imposed limit)

 

[VTdeerhunter]

I hunt mostly in New England now, but did a lot of hunting in New Mexico at one time as well. No matter where you hunt you will always have those spots thru the trees where you can see 500 yards, that doesn't mean that you should take the shot no matter what you have in your hands...I agree with Rifleman, I keep my shots to 100yds or less.

My personal choice is a .50 cal. flintlock longrife with 90 grains and a patched round ball and it puts a lot of meat in the freezer every year (deer and bear)...most drop in their tracks, all of them drop within sight

 

[Rifleman1776]

Not that enneybody asked :wink: but I now carry either a .54 with round ball or a smoothie .62. We have bear and elk in Arkansas and a .45 is not adequate for those. Have never killed either. I sorely want a bear one of these days.

 

[Black Hand]

6) You don't have to cast from pure lead. Anything from range scrap to Wheelweights will make perfectly acceptable balls. In fact, the harder alloys will drastically help penetration at close range where pure lead would have a tendency to flatten out.

I want the ball to flatten inside my deer rather than punch through. This way, all the energy is delivered to the deer rather than being wasted on air. Tends to drop them in their tracks.

 

[VTdeerhunter]

I agree and also like to transfer all of the bullet force into the animal, my original hunting load of 100 grains tended to punch thru the deer on a double lung or heart shot. On three of the deer I shot this year I dropped down to 90 grains and the ball lodged against the hide on the far side.

Kinda fun when you get to remelt your bullets and use them again to hunt with.... :stir:

 

[Kentuckywindage]

250gr conical, 80 yards with 110gr powder. :hatsoff:

 

[VTdeerhunter]

Great pictures...the last photo got my heart racing, no better sight then that on the ground..Congrats on a successful hunt :v

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Great pictures...the last photo got my heart racing, no better sight then that on the ground..Congrats on a successful hunt :v

Tell me about it! I was darn near stumbling over my feet when i saw that :haha: There was an entire trail of it actually.

 

[larry wv]

Thats why an exit hole is nice. The old idea about expending all the energy in the animal is a poor idea. I want an exit hole and good shot placement. I like round balls but they sure don't drop every thing in their tracks like the stories on this thread. Nothing in the muzzeloader line does that. Thats my opinion and I expect a few others. :grin: Larry

 

[Kentuckywindage]

i had no exit hole, bullet was pure lead and has a huge hollow point. I knew it was going to come apart but dang! That entrance hole was easily 3" in size. I actually video'd it and when i rolled the buck over, blood just started bubbling out big time. Shame i can't show it though. :shake:

 

[KHickam]

The last three whitetails I killed.

first was a button buck - hit with a 62 cal ball from a smoothbore - shot was a little further back than I liked - still not a gut shot - ran about 60 yards little blood and hardest to find because he was with a bunch of does the the trails intermingled.

2nd Whitetail - 9 pt buck - shot with a 50 cal ball out of a Early VA rifle - high lung shot - dropped in plain view not 10 ft from where I shot him. No exit wound - did not recover the ball

3rd whitetail - Doe shot with above rifle - double lung through and through - blood trail easily followed - perhaps 40 yds from where she was shot.

 

[tg]

"
3) A HUNTING load w/ PRB (100-120gr 2F) should be good to 100-125 yards. If you are using pure lead, the penetration is better at 125 than it is at 50, because the ball doesn't deform as much at the lower velocity."
I suspect that most will testify that at the closer range thball passes thru and at the longer range some may stop on the far side the theory above is really contrary to phyics and would have to be shown with gell tests and i do not think it would hold up.Just cannot buy it from what I have seen over the years or heard others tell of their experiences.