Conical vs. round ball for whitetails

[Cowboy2]

Aside from penetration, and assuming a rifle shoots both equally well, what are the benefits of using a .50cal conical as opposed to a patched round ball?

 

[Kentuckywindage]

great knock down energy, greater power for busting through heavy bone.

Almost forgot, You will be able to extend your range out to 200 yards if you work up an accurate conical load and learn the drop.

50cal PRB is maybe 100 yards max that i feel comfortable with.

 

[roundball]

Aside from penetration, and assuming a rifle shoots both equally well, what are the benefits of using a .50cal conical as opposed to a patched round ball?

Well, the main point of a conical is to get more weight in the projectile than is possible with the same size caliber sphere...with the main purpose of achieving greater penetration at longer distances, and/or deeper on bigger game, etc, etc.

But your question says: "aside from penetration and............."...what's the benefit of a conical?

Given the limiters of your question, then as far as I'm concerned there's not much benefit to a conical...plus they cost more and usually give a lot more recoil in the same caliber.

 

[Cowboy2]

Here's some background and the scenario I have in mind. I just purchased a .50 cal GPR flintlock, which shoots round balls very well. It'll do a hair under 2" at 100yds all day, and I'm young enough that I still have the eyesight to reach out farther. However, I'm concerned about whether or not it ethically has enough punch beyond that. I also have a T/C Hawken in .50 that shoots conicals well and round balls almost as good. I know it'll reach out to 115yds effectively with Powerbelts, because I took a nice buck at that range with it a couple of years ago. But I'd like to shift over to a more economical, heavier round, like Maxi-balls, etc.

I really want to focus more on hunting with BP as opposed to centerfire rifles. I hunt in some pretty diverse places, some offer considerably longer shots than others. I guess the best way to put it is, I'd like to have an extra club in my bag if its worth the hassle to do so. If it isn't, so be it, and I'll just shoot the round balls and forgo the extra recoil.

Thoughts?

 

[jethro224]

If you can wait for a broadside shot and if you can put the ball thru the heart/lungs a .50 round ball will kill a whitetail deer. It's more about how well you can shoot out to 100 yards and beyond. Sounds like you can shoot.

If you are after bigger game or like to take shoulder shots the conical might be a better choice. You still need to be able to hit what you are aiming at.

Just my opinion YMMV.

 

[rabjr]

"I really want to focus more on hunting with BP as opposed to centerfire rifles."

Learn how to get closer to your game and make those shots under 100 yards. Stalk, setup ambush sites. Do that and you won't have to worry about using anything but round balls.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I really want to focus more on hunting with BP as opposed to centerfire rifles. I hunt in some pretty diverse places, some offer considerably longer shots than others. I guess the best way to put it is, I'd like to have an extra club in my bag if its worth the hassle to do so. If it isn't, so be it, and I'll just shoot the round balls and forgo the extra recoil.

Thoughts?

If you take up blackpowder you ought to accept the challenge and get close. If you want modern projectiles for "modern" ranges - why use an antique system to deliver it?

 

[Kentuckywindage]

If you have to get close you may as well use a bow.

 

[Cowboy2]

I'm willing to accept the challenge of getting close, but when I head out to Oklahoma, sometimes 100yds is asking a whole, whole, lot. Look, I've got target rifles that will reach out to 500yds with no problem at all, and if killing was all I was interested in, I'd just carry them exclusively. I don't see myself going beyond 150yds with open sights, but under the right conditions (which is the only time I'm going to pull the trigger), I'm confident I can put the bullet there. Its a matter of whether or not the projectile is going to make a humane kill at that range.

I'm not a game hog. I go years without shooting deer by choice, not opportunity. The question is being asked because I don't like the idea of crippling one, or leaving it for the coyotes. For me, its about honoring the animal I harvest, and the challenge of doing so. If he's not one I'm going to be proud of and tell stories about, I simply don't shoot. Honestly, I pass on 90%+ of the bucks I see. But I do like using a gun to the best of my abilities, and wringing all I can from it. Hence the question about conicals and their benefits. I'm asking the question here because you folks have a lot more experience hunting with BP, and appreciate their limitations, better than I.

 

[Kapow]

Learn to stalk better, pay more attention to your camouflage, learn to accept disappointment knowing that it will increase the reward. OR stick with centrefires.

Traditional muzzleloader hunting is not about maximising range but rather like bowhunting, seeing how close you can possibly get and applying self discipline.

I cringe when I read about BP hunters stretching their rifles limits. Sooner or later you are going to wound something. I'd much rather hear someone brag about how close they got. Accept the limitations and revel in the challenge. And enjoy the process not the results.

 

[Spikebuck]

I have read that roundballs are more susceptible to deflection if they hit a piece of brush. If that is true I don't know if it's the shape or what. I haven't done experiments to know if it's true. Not that one intentionally shoots through a pile of brush, but it's easy enough in the low light of early morning or late afternoon to miss that one twig that's in the way.

I've killed deer with both and at "normal" blackpowder ranges (at least normal as we think of it today....I wonder if our muzzleloading forefather's passed up 150 or even 200 yard shots) and everything else equal on that size game, I'm not sure there is much difference...but then I shoot .54 caliber, not .50. If anything, I think the ones I've shot with conicals (I have used Buffalo Ball-ets and Hornady GP bullets) seem to expand more and leave a bigger exit wound and therefore better bloodtrails.

Personally, I'd use one of the all lead conicals like the maxihunter, Hornady GP, or Buffalo's fine line of bullets rather than the copper jacketed modern ML projectiles. In my first couple of years in blackpowder I used one of those plastic stock rifles and found virtually no expansion from the modern bullets. Plus the all-lead versions cost less and/or you could mold your own.

I'm not quite the purist some here are, so I don't have a bias for either based on "traditionalism." They used conicals a long, long time ago, so I figure they are as traditional as the rifles of those times. :surrender: :v

 

[Stumpkiller]

If you have to get close you may as well use a bow.

Out to 25 yards, yes. Best hunting there is.

Out to 80 yards? A round ball from a flintlock is dandy. That's about as good as I am with open iron sights in the woods anyhow. :thumbsup:

 

[Browning_68]

My cap .50 GPR shoots PRB and Hornady PA conicals about the same at 100yds. I like the higher weight of the conical but swab the barrel every two shots due to fouling. I mostly shoot PRB for practice and hunt with the conical, more weight makes me more comfortable. Do some testing and stop at a distance you're no longer comfortable with due to accuracy or penetration. I'm still young and dumb but so far it's worked for me. Good luck!

If you can't hit what you're shooting, might as well pick up knitting.

PS. Standing ten feet from a 7point bull bugling at dawn is not cool when you have a cow tag.

 

[paulvallandigham]

A .54 cal. Round Ball weights 230 grain+/-, which is more than 1/2 oz. of lead. You will feel the recoil shooting these RBs, but they are not very punishing unless you're being silly about how much powder you use.

Such a RB will completely penetrate a thin-skinned prey species such as the Whitetail deer, at any reasonable distance you can accurately shoot open rifle sights.

DO YOU OWN PENETRATION TESTING. There simply is NO good reason to use conicals to hunt deer if you are shooting any MLer that is .54 cal. or larger in bore size( ie..58, .62, .66, .69 etc.) I know a good shooter who killed a whitetail at 175 yds. with his .62 cal. rifle, shooting a RB. The ball completely penetrated the lungs of his deer, which dropped DRT.

I chose a .50 cal. rifle that shoots ONLY RBs. The deer hunting I do is not over open pastures, but rather in deep woods or along river bottom edge brush. You might see deer moving at 75 or 100 yds, where I Hunt, but you won't have a good shot, because of all the brush in between you and that deer.

I Have done my own penetration testing, comparing different powder charges in my .50 cal., rifle, and to modern cartridges to learn for myself how well a soft lead ball will penetrate. I am quite comfortable with both the caliber, powder charge, and use of a round ball for hunting white tails here. If I thought I might have an opportunity to hunt Elk, I would not hesitate to acquire a .54 cal. rifle.

:thumbsup:

 

[Kentuckywindage]

heres why you want a 54cal + !! And this is just my BACK YARD These are all different visitors!

I was nervous when i saw this one,

I was then changing into some new underwear when i saw him. My 54 also got replaced with a 7.62x54 when ever i went out back the check the game camera.

That pilgrim is why you want a 54 or larger.

 

[Rat Trapper]

Nothing wrong with using a conical if your rifle likes them. Use a good hunting load and not one of the wimp loads often promoted on here!

From the pics above, looks like your back yard would be a good place to fill a bear tag!

 

[ron ward]

that's one good thing about being a bow hunter and using a muzzle gun also. you realize the importance of getting close and it makes getting there a part of the hunt, naturally.
i'm in about the same boat... i have several high powers that, for all practicle conditions, no matter how far away it is, if i can see the dear, i can get to it. but lately, i am thinking about peddling my center fires and buying muzzle gun parts with the money, just because it's more fun/relaxing/nastolgic hunting with them.

 

[Walks with fire]

I have some 1/28 twist GM .50 caliber barrels and I have shot the 385/410 grain Great Plains Bullets from these barrels with outstanding accuracy. There is no doubt in my mind that it is much more powerful than the .50 roundballs that I prefer to use on the woods range whitetails I hunt here in PA.

I would probably use them to hunt with if I didn't have the fear of them moving off the powder charge. Paper patched for a snug fit I feel ok with them but I just don't trust a bare conical as I have found them to move off the charge in every rifle I have ever owned. They are much more effective at longer range than a rb.

 

[Stumpkiller]

My 54 also got replaced with a 7.62x54 when ever i went out back. . .

Don't put out those ground bird-feeders in your yard and they'll stop coming around. No worries. :haha:

 

[Cowboy2]

After seeing a couple of those, I don't think I'd even walk out to the car without 12 gauge packed to the gills with 3" slugs.