Confusion Over Sights On A Smoothbore

[Grizzled Roberts]

NMLRA rules for smoothbores says "No rear sight above the plane of the barrel". There are seperate matches for smooth rifles ( sighted smoothbores )on both sides of the road at Friendship

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Thanks for your input, it's appreciated.

Wish somebody would have said something at the beginning of the day's events yesterday. I had my rifle, I could have just used that. I didn't use the rifle because I wanted the additional challenge of not having rifling for this year's shoots. Oh well :idunno: .

Dave

 

[larry wv]

If the sight pin has threads and isn't to tight I use vicegrips with some cloth between the bead and the grip part. Larry

 

[Many Klatch]

Grizz and I have whupped on rifle shooters with our smoothbores. The NMLRA rules for a smoothbore is that it can't have a rear sight protruding above the barrel. Now that don't mean that the sight can't be below the plane of the barrel. I have been known to take out the tang screw and replace it with a big headed screw that works as a rear sight with a little practice.

You can make your big headed tang screw by finding the right sized hex head bolt. Bring it home and chuck it into an electric drill with the hex head sticking out. Turn on the drill and take a big file and round down the hex head until it is a round head. Saw your slot with a hacksaw.

When people start messing with you that way you just naturally have to mess back. I find that how I turn the tang screw/site affects my horizontal hold quite a bit.

Many Klatch

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I LOVE it Many! Nothing quite like getting it done Gamer style!

Now I gotta go look at the tang screw.

Dave

 

[newtothis]

your shooting a ten guage. you win. end of discussion. :grin: :bow: that sucks man, its rediculous how similar grown men with firearms can be to three-year-olds when it comes to winning. :shake:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I don't really care IF I win, I'm really just there to have fun & make smoke. I enjoy overcoming the obstacles involved. Shooting a bird gun at paper is a real challenge I'll say that!

All the best in your BP adventures!

Dave

 

[rich pierce]

Cover it with electrician's tape. Then it's not a sight. It's a lump.

 

[kawaker900]

Dave,

Take off the second bead and shoot the other two matches. Remember the lowest score is dropped.

This is too funny! :rotf:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Ben,

Thanks! I'll see if I can unscrew the bead in the middle. Does this mean that my March score is reinstated? Thank the committee for me!

Dave

 

[jethro224]

From the NMLRA rule book;

5640”“SIGHTED SMOOTHBORE (a.k.a. SMOOTH RIFLE)”“A Traditional Offhand Hunting firearm with the following added restrictions. Sights
on these rifles shall be fixed open, front and rear. Barrel must be free of any rifling, or smooth bored. No limitations on caliber.

5650”“TRADE GUN or FOWLER (a.k.a. SMOOTHBORE)”“A traditional offhand hunting firearm originally intended to shoot either round ball or
shot. Flintlock only. No set triggers. 28ga. (54 caliber) minimum. No rear sight above the plane of the barrel.

And this from the NMLRA primitive range rules;

9050”“SMOOTHBORE”“A traditional style long gun originally intended to shoot either round ball or shot. The smoothbore must be of 28 ga. (.54
caliber) or larger. No rear sight above the plane of the barrel, no set triggers. Smoothbores that are acceptable in the primitive smoothbore matches
include musket, fowler and trade gun.

9060”“SIGHTED SMOOTHBORE (a.k.a. SMOOTH RIFLE)”“A traditional style long gun with a barrel with no rifling (smooth bored). Smooth rifle
may have set triggers and fixed open sights, front and rear. No limitations on bore size or caliber.

:idunno:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

From the NMLRA rule book;

5640”“SIGHTED SMOOTHBORE (a.k.a. SMOOTH RIFLE)”“A Traditional Offhand Hunting firearm with the following added restrictions. Sights
on these rifles shall be fixed open, front and rear. Barrel must be free of any rifling, or smooth bored. No limitations on caliber.

5650”“TRADE GUN or FOWLER (a.k.a. SMOOTHBORE)”“A traditional offhand hunting firearm originally intended to shoot either round ball or
shot. Flintlock only. No set triggers. 28ga. (54 caliber) minimum. No rear sight above the plane of the barrel.

And this from the NMLRA primitive range rules;

9050”“SMOOTHBORE”“A traditional style long gun originally intended to shoot either round ball or shot. The smoothbore must be of 28 ga. (.54
caliber) or larger. No rear sight above the plane of the barrel, no set triggers. Smoothbores that are acceptable in the primitive smoothbore matches
include musket, fowler and trade gun.

9060”“SIGHTED SMOOTHBORE (a.k.a. SMOOTH RIFLE)”“A traditional style long gun with a barrel with no rifling (smooth bored). Smooth rifle
may have set triggers and fixed open sights, front and rear. No limitations on bore size or caliber.

:idunno:

Jim,

The way I interpret these Rules I'm using a sighted smoothbore due to the rear sight. If I remove the rear sight (which is above the plane of the barrels) I should be good, but it still doesn't meet the strict interpretation of NMLRA Rules since it's not a flinter :idunno: . The Rules quoted don't take into account anything like I'm doing (using a SxS as a Smoothie). I still feel that having a single bead directly over the barrel in front is easier to shoot than having a set of beads in the way, in the middle of a set of barrels, causing you to have to memorize an "offset" hold for both elevation & windage, which then changes depending upon the distance to the targets :idunno: .

Bottom line is I wonder if Farmer Joe looked-up a bunch of Rules somewhere before loading one side with Buckshot and the other with a 72 cal. ball prior to going afield with this piece for deer/bear hunting PRIOR to the creation of the NMLRA :idunno: .

I'm still trying to figure-out whether or not I want to try to remove the rear bead, for fear of either losing it or stripping it out.....

Thanks for posting the Rules. I'd be interested in your response.

Dave

 

[jethro224]

Dave,
As far as NMLRA rules, I interpret it the same as you. Your gun fits in the sighted smoothbore category. Even then you'd be giving yourself a handicap by using it there. Better to use one with a real rear sight and maybe a set trigger...

Not knowing the written rules for your club makes it impossible to form an opinion as to whether your gun should be legal for your club smoothbore shoots.

If I were you I would ask to see a copy of those rules.
I wouldn't be surprised if they say the NMLRA rules apply. Lotta clubs do...
If they tell you they go by the NMLRA rules, I hope the guy who complained about your gun was shooting a caplock too. :wink:
Then you can go... :blah:

Either way, they should have inspected all of the guns before the match if they have particular rules. All smoothbores used at the Primitive range at Friendship must be inspected and have a sticker that says they passed.

Farmer Joe didn't hafta worry about this...

 

[tg]

i do ythink ythe big stink here is not making a call on a gun BEFORE the event or it all seems kind of smelly, the rules are for a reason, to level the playing field. I know guys who wanted to shoot trade gun shoots for years but only had caplocks, rules are rules but should not be interpreted,brought to play after one has been allowed to shoot a match.That is worse than trying to shoot a Grizzly bear with a flintlock that has no vent liner :hmm:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Dave,
As far as NMLRA rules, I interpret it the same as you. Your gun fits in the sighted smoothbore category. Even then you'd be giving yourself a handicap by using it there. Better to use one with a real rear sight and maybe a set trigger...

Not knowing the written rules for your club makes it impossible to form an opinion as to whether your gun should be legal for your club smoothbore shoots.

If I were you I would ask to see a copy of those rules.
I wouldn't be surprised if they say the NMLRA rules apply. Lotta clubs do...
If they tell you they go by the NMLRA rules, I hope the guy who complained about your gun was shooting a caplock too. :wink:
Then you can go... :blah:

Either way, they should have inspected all of the guns before the match if they have particular rules. All smoothbores used at the Primitive range at Friendship must be inspected and have a sticker that says they passed.

Farmer Joe didn't hafta worry about this...

I was told that the NMLRA Rules apply, but nobody had a copy when I asked to see them. We'll see what happens from here on in. Either way, I'm there to make smoke & have fun. I'm at a point in my shooting "career" that I only really hafta please myself. I enjoy overcoming the obstacles encountered in the black powder genre. I enjoy using guns "out-of-the-box" and winning matches with them, be they a revolver, rifle or shotgun. I'm there because I enjoy their company, even though it takes almost 1.5 hours to get there.

Thanks Jim for your response.

Dave

 

[Keb]

From the NMLRA rule book;

5640”“SIGHTED SMOOTHBORE (a.k.a. SMOOTH RIFLE)”“A Traditional Offhand Hunting firearm with the following added restrictions. Sights
on these rifles shall be fixed open, front and rear. Barrel must be free of any rifling, or smooth bored. No limitations on caliber.

5650”“TRADE GUN or FOWLER (a.k.a. SMOOTHBORE)”“A traditional offhand hunting firearm originally intended to shoot either round ball or
shot. Flintlock only. No set triggers. 28ga. (54 caliber) minimum. No rear sight above the plane of the barrel.

And this from the NMLRA primitive range rules;

9050”“SMOOTHBORE”“A traditional style long gun originally intended to shoot either round ball or shot. The smoothbore must be of 28 ga. (.54
caliber) or larger. No rear sight above the plane of the barrel, no set triggers. Smoothbores that are acceptable in the primitive smoothbore matches
include musket, fowler and trade gun.

9060”“SIGHTED SMOOTHBORE (a.k.a. SMOOTH RIFLE)”“A traditional style long gun with a barrel with no rifling (smooth bored). Smooth rifle
may have set triggers and fixed open sights, front and rear. No limitations on bore size or caliber.

:idunno:

I looked & looked thru my rule book to find these rules and couldn't find em. Come to find out I have an old rule book dated 1994 :idunno:
I downloaded the new book (May 2010) from the NMLRA's site.

 

[jethro224]

1994!!??? Yep, that's old! :haha:

Dave, and anyone else who is interested,
You can download the newest version of the NMLRA rule book here; http://www.nmlra.org/pdfs/RangeRuleBook5-10.pdf

 

[Rifleman1776]

I would say the ruling is correct.
Most shoots/clubs do not allow any rear sights for smoothie matches. Arguing that "some originals had them" doesn't fly. The rules as set by the event are what....well...rule.
FWIW, two events I attend each year prohibit smoothies over 20 ga. for trade gun matches where balls are shot. The 'reasoning' is that large balls, like 12 ga. damage the target frames. Huh?? So...20 ga. balls just bounce off???
I don't like it but thems the rules.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I would say the ruling is correct.
Most shoots/clubs do not allow any rear sights for smoothie matches. Arguing that "some originals had them" doesn't fly. The rules as set by the event are what....well...rule.
FWIW, two events I attend each year prohibit smoothies over 20 ga. for trade gun matches where balls are shot. The 'reasoning' is that large balls, like 12 ga. damage the target frames. Huh?? So...20 ga. balls just bounce off???
I don't like it but thems the rules.

I am rethinking my response.
You should have been told before, or during, the match you gun was not eligible according to the rules.
But, to take away your placing in the matches AFTER the fact and after results were announced was not right. Except for golf, contests are finished and the results set when the final whistle blows.
The club did nothing right in this instance. But, now you know your gun is not rules elgible.

 

[tg]

I agree that is a better call,someone missed the boat before the event began, "takebacks' are very unprofessional and open the door to questioning motives.