Confusion Over Sights On A Smoothbore

[Dave Rosenthal]

I would say the ruling is correct.
Most shoots/clubs do not allow any rear sights for smoothie matches. Arguing that "some originals had them" doesn't fly. The rules as set by the event are what....well...rule.
FWIW, two events I attend each year prohibit smoothies over 20 ga. for trade gun matches where balls are shot. The 'reasoning' is that large balls, like 12 ga. damage the target frames. Huh?? So...20 ga. balls just bounce off???
I don't like it but thems the rules.

I am rethinking my response.
You should have been told before, or during, the match you gun was not eligible according to the rules.
But, to take away your placing in the matches AFTER the fact and after results were announced was not right. Except for golf, contests are finished and the results set when the final whistle blows.
The club did nothing right in this instance. But, now you know your gun is not rules elgible.

That's my point of view, especially since there aren't any cash prizes involved. And especially since members of the Shoot Committee were made aware of my use of a 10 ga. SxS PRIOR to the March Match :idunno: .

Another Club that I'm a member of and shoot in their Black Powder League considers my gun to be "Smoothbore" and I merrily shoot the thing placing both first & last in my designated Division :haha: . Nothing to prove, except to myself, that it can be done.

Dave

 

[kawaker900]

Dave,

I'm not one to get into this discussion on a forum so I'll say my point once and clear this up for everyone. If you want to discuss further you know how to reach me. Your shotgun was disqualified because it has a rear sight (second bead). That's it. Our rules have always been no rear sight, second sight above the plain of the barrel. Several members over the past years have been disqualified for the same. When you asked about shooting it in March we said ok. We didn't want to turn
ANYONE down for shooting and competing in our great sport.
If we have to point fingers, let's say both sides are at fault. The
shoot committee for not checking your shotgun (sorry like I said in the previous sentence, don't want to turn away anyone)
and yourself by not knowing the rules. The minute the second
bead was brought to our attention it was addressed with you. Nothing else. As I said before, the lowest score gets dropped,
you have two more shoots left, drop the bead and shoot. As I heard you say may times before it's for fun. So have fun!

Ben. :v

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Ben,

I understand your point of view. I haven't decided if I want to play around unscrewing the bead in the middle, for fear of stripping the threads or losing it. Would a big lump of black electrical tape over the top of the thing be considered enough of a handicap to alleviate this situation?

Either way, have a great Father's Day with the Family!

Dave

 

[Rifleman1776]

Dave, removing that bead is not a big deal. Tape over it won't change anything. You would still have a rear sight but it would be ugly tape. If you want to continue competing with that shotgun you will have to remove the bead. The rule is the rule, talking it to death won't change anything.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Dave, removing that bead is not a big deal. Tape over it won't change anything. You would still have a rear sight but it would be ugly tape. If you want to continue competing with that shotgun you will have to remove the bead. The rule is the rule, talking it to death won't change anything.

Frank,

I respectfully disagree. I'm not talking about a single strip of tape carefully wrapped around the bead so that it can be used as a rear sight. My thought was to bugger-up the thing (thereby creating even more of a handicap & challenge) with a "gob" of black tape that would obstruct the sight plane even more than the naked off-center practically useless bead does now, sitting in the middle between the two barrels :idunno: .

The truth is until you've walked a mile in my shoes, shooting a shotgun with unregulated barrels, requiring guessing how much "hold-over" and "hold to the side" combination to use to lob round balls into a target, you don't have a common frame of reference. What the hell good are sights, front or back, if you have to aim (read guess) completely OVER the target to lob the balls into it :idunno: . If I shot a regular Smoothy with just a front bead IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BORE all I'd need to do would be to work-up a good load that would take the X-ring out at 25 & 50 yards......

Dave

 

[Stumpkiller]

Does not matter. It's something added to and elevated on the barrel in the sight plane and those that complain about such things will complain. Now, whether the rib is in fact "the barrel" and you promised on your honor to only use, say, the right barrel and look along that clear surface ignoring the rib . . . I'd let you shoot.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

:thumbsup: and a big THANKS! :wink: :bow: :v

 

[paulvallandigham]

Dave and Ben: my club adopted the NMLRA rules, but we also had the decency to acquire a copy of the rule book, which was kept by our score keeper at the club for every match. Any disputes were resolved by consulting the rule book. But, those disputes were ALWAYS resolved BEFORE the shooter was allowed to shoot.

Shame on this club for ruling the gun "illegal" AFTER DAVE had shot the match. Considering the nature of the gun he used, and the distances he had to shoot to hit a target, he certainly did not receive an advantage from having that " Middle " bead on his rib.

If you let the guy shoot the match, and take his money, then he's entitle to his score and winnings. Period.

The way it was done to Dave this time sounds like just SOUR GRAPES! Do that more than once, and you will find few people willing to attend your shooting matches. That doesn't do much for club memberships, nor for the club Treasury. More than one club has lost patrons because of this kind of behavior by folks who should know better.

Dave. most of the middle sight beads either screw in, or are epoxied into the rib. If you can't turn it out easily with needle nose pliers, then put a propane torch to the rib at its base and heat it up. That should break lose any epoxy used to hold the bead in the rib.

Remember, "Lefty-loosey, Righty-Tighty." Turn the bead counterclockwise to remove it, if its threaded into the rib.

FYI, I have seen guns where the owners have filed a sight line on the back of the barrel, or even marked it with a flow pen. This " rear sight" is mainly used to reduce windage errors- and does nothing to help elevation errors. YOu don't need much of a mark to allow the human eye to align the front sight with the mark, and your eye, to eliminate windage errors.

I even was trained to shoot handguns fast with the gun held some 10-14 inches below my line of sight, where the top of the gun could only be seen in the lower, peripheral vision of your eye. I later learned to shoot shotgun slugs at targets out to 50 yds, by holding the butt of the stock against my sternum, so that the "sights" on the shotgun were more than a foot below my line of sight. I could just see the muzzle of my shotgun in my lower peripheral vision. I still hit the targets with amazing- or unexpected-- accuracy( to me). :shocked2: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Paul,

I couldn't have stated the case better than what you've just done :applause: .

I'm getting ready to meet some friends for CF shotgun, otherwise I'd continue writing.

Really glad to have you back, and thanks for the advise on the epoxy thing. I wouldn't want to bugger-up the gun just to "play a game" where the only prize is a plaque at the Christmas Party :haha: .

Dave

 

[Rifleman1776]

Enjoy the CF shotgun thing.
It seems obvious to me you really feel sorry for yourself. If you are not into shooting ml shotguns in the spirit of the "game" just for the joy of doing it, you really belong elsewhere. Your choice.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Enjoy the CF shotgun thing.
It seems obvious to me you really feel sorry for yourself. If you are not into shooting ml shotguns in the spirit of the "game" just for the joy of doing it, you really belong elsewhere. Your choice.

Frank,

You don't have a dog in this race. You haven't even been on this forum for a month, and you certainly don't know me yet. Why you would say something as unkind as you did strikes me as quite odd :idunno: . Who died and left you Boss to tell me "that I belong elsewhere" :idunno: .

As to the crack you made about my reference to CF, it wasn't meant to "slight" anyone who uses the holy black, merely to inform a friend what I was doing today. Paul & I have a lot in common, and both of us are quite experienced in a number of shooting & hunting disciplines, some of which include black powder. I don't need to bore anyone with what I've shot for the last 40 years.

I don't feel sorry for myself. I'm just miffed that NO ONE said anything to me until AFTER the second Match. I'm shooting a shotgun with shotgun sights at an event where everybody else is using a gun with a sight directly over the center of their bore. I don't know how much more I can "just shoot for fun" if I'm already at an extreme disadvantage by using a shotgun as a smoothbore, "playing the game just for the joy of doing it".

Paul's answer above fits this problem to a "T". If someone got out a rule book and showed me what the rule was back in MARCH, PRIOR to my first shot, I'd have just shot my .50 cal percussion rifle, which I had in the trunk of my car the entire time, as I go NOWHERE without a BACK-UP firearm!

So Frank, are we O-K, or do you just want to put me on ignore :idunno: ?

Dave

 

[xring2245]

I live in central NJ too. Which club did this incident happen at? Just wondering... I shoot a smooth rifle.

James

 

[xring2245]

Enjoy the CF shotgun thing.
It seems obvious to me you really feel sorry for yourself. If you are not into shooting ml shotguns in the spirit of the "game" just for the joy of doing it, you really belong elsewhere. Your choice.

Wow, this insult came out of left field. This was a good post and discussion until this insult.
Why would you do this?

James