Companies making kits

[kswan]

Hello all.

Ive been through the posts and found the most popular companies making flintlock kits. TVM, Track of the wolf, Sitting fox, Tip Curtis. Are there any ones Im missing? Im still a bit unsure which way to go as this is my first flintlock but Im looking at spending around 700.00. I have a CVA Hawkins percussion and although its been good Id rather get something a bit better.

Thanks

 

[Don Steele]

Take a look at Dunlap Woodcrafts component sets. http://www.dunlap-woodcrafts.com/ComponentSets/TransitionIsaacHainesRifle.php

I recently contacted them about their flintlock flush kit, and found to my surprise that they offer a competitive component set I was totally unaware of.
I was particularly interested in one of theirs, a Transition Isaac Haines, that comes with the woodwork 90% complete. I'm not much of a woodworking guy.... :redface:
Give Daniel a shout over there and see if they can help you. Great folks to work with.
BTW: I have their flush kit, and find it works great...NO "leakage".
Other's experience may vary, especially with "Flush kits" from other suppliers...that's mine.

 

[Kapow]

Pecatonica River? They look good. I'm led to believe they are excellent to deal with.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well just understand that what I called a "gun kit" when I firt started is what I now refer to being "finished in the white". The wood and metal all fit, it's just the finishing that needs to be done. My first few black powder rifles were such.

An "advanced kit" is what I would call it when the lock, butt plate, and barrel have been fitted, but there still is some fitting of minor pieces, and drilling of pins...along with metal finishing and wood finishing.

What most places offer as a "kit" is what is really a "parts kit", and you could obtain the same if you knew what parts to order directly from one of the muzzle loader parts suppliers. The stock is preshaped, but you are still going to spend some time adding the barrel and the lock, etc. Many of these are also offered with levels of work completed, for additional fees.

So you have to balance your skill, your available time (don't rush is rule #1), and your budget compared to what you're ordering.

I have a Dunlap stock for a factory Bess. Pedersoli stopped offering replacement stocks, and I scrounged a barrel and a lock and some other odd bits of hardware over the years, to construct a FrankenBess. I'm almost ready to begin, and the stock is a pretty good value. So I cannot say I've seen their component kits for rifles, but they do make a very good copy of a factory stock.


LD

 

[Dean2]

There are many more makers of kits, from in the white to parts sets, but you have found some of the better regarded ones. A guy can drive himself crazy looking at too amny options.

Pick the "level" of finished kit you are interested in and it might be easier to advise. For instance, a Lyman kit gun is pretty much assembly and finishing as is a Tip Curtis in the White, about 20 hours for either. A Pecatonia Kit is about 800 hours to get to the same place.

I think you are going to find $700 a little on the thin side for good quality parts. It would cover a Lyman Kit but if you are trying to move up market, you are likely going to need to add another 300.

 

[vacca rabite]

Don't forget Chambers!

When I started I built a Lyman kit gun and then a Chambers parts kit. I agree with Dave's notion that the Lyman is more "in the white." Everything fit out of the box, all you needed to do was sand and stain.

I put about 40 hours into my Lyman, but I did extra stuff to it.

My Lancaster had about 80 hours as opposed to 800.

When you go from building the Lyman/CVA/etc guns to the full stock kit guns there is a BIG jump in the work and forethought needed. There is an order to building them that can cause errors if you get wrong. Barrel - Lock - Trigger - Butt - everyhting else.

I'm not starting to build from planks instead of precarves, and am expecting my time to double again from 80 hours to about 160.

Zach

 

[Vaino]

A "kit" or for a better description.....a parts set, requires skills and tools to complete and because the style or "school" is predetermined by the architecture of the precarved stock and suitable hardware, one can build a very nice MLer.

Most parts sets require 150-200 hrs for a beginner to complete...slightly more if carving and other embellishments are added.

All the above mentioned suppliers can provide a parts set, but some are better than others....my choice would be a Chambers parts set. Have built 3 of his early Lancasters and have had a minimum of complications. All his components are the best on the market and the parts sets are authentically based on originals

Chambers supplies brass parts which require very little work as opposed to sand cast brass, the precarved stock is excellent, his locks have a lifetime warranty, the Rice bbls are top notch and have the bbl lugs and front sight dovetails cut in and all the inlets are roughed in.

Chambers parts sets do cost a little more than the others, but seeing some of the work is already done and the quality is excellent, the extra money is well worth it.

My 2nd choice would be Dunlaps only because of my dealings w/ him when buying stock blanks.

If a parts set is beyond your skill or confidence level, then perhaps a Tip Curtis "in the white" would better suit....but you'll learn a lot less .

Below is shown a Chambers early Lancaster that was built a few yrs ago. Good luck w/ whatever choice you make. Forgot to mention that these parts sets come w/o instructions...so some good "how to" books are in order....Fred

 

[vacca rabite]

My only complaint to the Chambers kits is that even for guns using a 3/8 inch rammer, they are bored for a 5/16th rammer. This goes for the bore down the stock and the thimbles.

This was not an issue for me as I prefer formed thimbles rather then cast, and so replaced the Chambers kit thimbles with different ones. For the rammer to fit down the bore of the stock, though, it is required to reduce the diameter of the rammer to 5/16th for about 1/3 or the overall rammer length.

Zach

 

[MSW]

before starting, I'd get a copy of Peter Alexander's The Gunsmith of Grenville County, or Recreating the American Longrifle, by Buechele, et al., or both if your budget allows (these books are, admittedly, a bit expensive, but they will prove cost efficient if you count the value of parts you don't ruin and time you don't spend waiting for replacements)... you can get both from Track of the Wolf. read them cover to cover several times before you decide which rifle you're going to build.

Also, get really good at sharpening tools. Dull tools will get you hurt, and getting bloodstains from an expensive stock is really a pain in the Clinton (don't ask me how I know)
:cursing: :redface: :cursing: :redface:

by way of warning/disclaimer: you are about to embark on a project which will morph into a hobby which is highly addictive. Once rocks banged have you, forever will they dominate your range time.
:grin:

p.s. I bought a precarve from Pecatonica - they're really great folks.

 

[Spikebuck]

You can't go wrong with a Chambers Kit.
http://www.flintlocks.com/

Also, Dave Keck at Knob Mountain.
http://www.knobmountainmuzzleloading.com/

I have done two Track of the Wolf Kits and these are truly parts kits. On my last one the lock was almost "in the rough." These require a lot of barrel fitting, lock fitting, and so on. Basic shape may not even match what is HC/PC for the gun which will require a lot of shaping. Nothing wrong with them, just realize these "kits" have a LOT to do to finish them.

I don't know if since you have a Hawken you are looking at building another. Here is my post from earlier in the year on my ToTW flint fullstock Hawken build, and it includes a link to my entire build process, so you can see exactly what it took to build this rifle.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/294183/post/1475004/hl//fromsearch/1/

 

[BillinOregon]

Hey, don't overlook our own Laffin' Dog's Northstar West kits. If you are wanting a gun related to the fur trade, particularly Hudson's Bay or Northwest Company (thinking the incredibly useful Northwest Gun here) you'd be hard put to find a better kit.

 

[Vaino]

I simply ream the RR pipes out to 3/8 dia. and have found the RR hole in the stock to be 3/8 dia. Judging from the varied recommendations, it's a "big job" to sort out the good from the not so good.....Fred

 

[kswan]

Thanks all for taking to the time to give answers.
I want to go a little more in depth that white. But not to the point of carving the majority of the stock. I built the CVA I have now many years ago with no problems.

 

[kswan]

Thanks very much for that reply. Thats an absolute beautiful rifle.Actually one of the parts sets I was looking at. This gives me a very good idea of whats involved.

 

[longcruise]

Most of the purveyors of "parts sets" are offering the same parts though often in different combinations. Track, for example, offers mostly stocks from pecatonica. Very few offer truly unique parts sets. The Rifle Shop is one notable exception.

Not saying this is a hard and fast rule. Main point is that the sets out there are often the same.

It's a good idea to purchase the sets though since you can be pretty certain that the parts will fit physically even if not HC.

Often first time builders are looking for as much work as possible done for them. This can be a trap! I'm not an accomplished builder nor highly experienced, but I'll say for certain that building near completed GPR kits gave me more fits than a scratch build.

If you are pretty sure that you can inlet a nose cap or a tang or a butt plate or even the simpler inlays, then you can also inlet a lock, trigger guard and trigger. So, get a basic pre shaped stock with a barrel channel and rod channel along with the parts that are meant to fit it.

And, any and all books you can lay your hands on.

 

[Birddog6]

Comparing a CVA build (actually a CVA kit is an Assembly, the rifle is built) to a Kit supplied by TVM, Tip Curtis, Pecatonica, Jim Chambers, etc, is like comparing building a 3 HP lawn more engine build to a Nascar engine build.

They are not even Close to the same thing.... I have seen 12 yr old Boy Scouts easily handle the CVA, Lyman, T/C kits in 16 hrs.. Not the same with these other long rifle kits.

These are not really Kits, these are a box of Parts. YOU make it into a rifle.

Also, your ID says Sweden. If we are stating the country of Sweden, there may be some shipping issues, as some of these places will not ship out of the USA.

Regards,

Keith Lisle

 

[longcruise]

Anybody can put them together. Seen many of them that had been "assembled". They go together just fine if you are indifferent to the way the factory in letting is fouled up. Fully half that I've seen needed to be returned for stock replacement. Just because they can be assembled doesn't mean they should be.

I'm aware that you are a highly accomplished builder, but to assume that the OP is not capable of building a rifle from a parts set is a reach.

My point to him is that if he can perform some of the basic steps such as inletting, he can probably build a rifle. Might even be better than your first!

 

[kswan]

Thanks again for the input. Im living in Sweden right now but have an address in Canada where I keep and my guns.

 

[Vaino]

I must be reading a different post from Birddog6 than you....didn't read where he assumed that the OP wasn't capable of building a MLer from a parts set.

Below is a true story which exemplifies a trait that's often overlooked by beginning builders and is just as important as hand skills.

A few yrs ago I paid a trip to TOW and while talking w/ Dave Riplinger the owner about TGs, in walked a buyer of a TOW LR parts set and promptly came over and interrupted us....no problem because he was proudly holding the completed LR and after letting both of us hold his "creation", congratulations were in order.

His first remark was a question as to how much his LR was worth and was directed to Dave. Well, Dave didn't welcome the question because he didn't know if the builder wanted to place it in his consignment sales, so he asked. The builder said no, just wanted to know the value.

At the time, this parts set sold for approx. $500 and after looking it over for some time, Dave quoted a retail value of $400.

The builder promptly took umbrage at the low value of his LR and w/o another word, left.

Dave said that he had just lost a future customer and felt bad that he had "burst this fellow's balloon".

After a few minutes he explained why only the $400 value....if the builder had spent some addt'l time on each component along w/ all the stock work, the value would have been greater. "that LR reeked w/ impatience" and it was quite evident in all it's aspects.

Having mechanical skills along w/ patience produces satisfactory results.

Patience is a learned trait and was an important part of learning to be a tool and diemaker. I'm not really a patient person except when I'm building something....then my patience is unlimited...all due to training.....Fred

 

[Spikebuck]

Fred, being a relative novice at building I remember the very first advice I got a few years ago on this forum...and that was how critical patience was in the process. I am a Type A impatient person if ever there was one, but I took that piece of advice to heart and just forced myself to go slowly and carefully.

If I'm not in a "patient mood" I just won't work on the build. Before I move forward, I re-read chapters of the books I have and/or review building DVD's because the skills needed are far from engrained in me yet.

I came into this "hobby" with virtually zero wood or metal working skills. The technical tips I have gained on this Forum have been invaluable to help fill those skill gaps. But from my limited experience and assuming one has at least an average "talent" and ability to learn the processes, I would say patience is the key virtue to have when it comes to an acceptable quality outcome.