Cleaning between shots

[Cvkotvkse]

I regularly shoot 30 to 40 rounds without cleaning in my civil war rifled muskets and 1/48 twist Hawken firing Minnie rounds greased with crisco in the base or dip greased with beeswax and crisco.

After 35 years shooting my .50 cal. CVA St. Louis Hawken w/ conicals, Crisco still works great for me w/ that combo.
Having added in Colonial and SMR flintlocks shooting PRB's this year, it's back to some trial 'n' error time at the range, and I'm enjoying all the ideas being shared... thanks, friends!

 

[mkabe]

OK, a few suggestions, but your mileage may vary:

• Stop using Pyrodex immediately and either use actual black powder or 777. I like Old Eynsford... currently unavailable.
• Try using 3f granulation powder, you will probably find that it doesn't foul as much.
• Reduce your charge weight to 50 grains. Less powder = less fouling
• Ignore the people who tell you not to use Bore Butter and stay away from petroleum-based lubes. This one will start a war.
• Go to a .490 round ball and use .010 - .015 patches. You should not need a hammer in the possibles bag.
• There should be no reason to clean between shots at the range. I typically shoot ten to twenty shots and THEN clean the gun.
• Ignore any advice that doesn't seem to work for you. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
• Use hot soapy water to clean your gun. I like a few drops of Murphy's Oil Soap. Some folks even use it for patch lube.
• When you go to the range, always bring a range rod, a worm, a ball & bullet puller, some bore solvent, cotton cleaning patches and absolutely anything else you think you might need. If you are driving a Lotus 7, have a good cry and then trade it for a pickup truck.

Dale,
I’ve only used Pyrodex, both RS & P & real BP (Goex FFF). I have found the P granulation the less fouling. But I have found Pyrodex, either granulation, much less fouling than BP.
Why do you not like Pyrodex? Not arguing, just very interested in your thoughts and experiences. I haven’t shot MLs in years and not sure 777 was even yet available. My ML rifles are both sidelocks.

 

[Rhyno]

OK, a few suggestions, but your mileage may vary:

• Stop using Pyrodex immediately and either use actual black powder or 777. I like Old Eynsford... currently unavailable.
• Try using 3f granulation powder, you will probably find that it doesn't foul as much.
• Reduce your charge weight to 50 grains. Less powder = less fouling
• Ignore the people who tell you not to use Bore Butter and stay away from petroleum-based lubes. This one will start a war.
• Go to a .490 round ball and use .010 - .015 patches. You should not need a hammer in the possibles bag.
• There should be no reason to clean between shots at the range. I typically shoot ten to twenty shots and THEN clean the gun.
• Ignore any advice that doesn't seem to work for you. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
• Use hot soapy water to clean your gun. I like a few drops of Murphy's Oil Soap. Some folks even use it for patch lube.
• When you go to the range, always bring a range rod, a worm, a ball & bullet puller, some bore solvent, cotton cleaning patches and absolutely anything else you think you might need. If you are driving a Lotus 7, have a good cry and then trade it for a pickup truck.

Great advice!

 

[mkabe]

Great advice!

Not arguing just interested in why no Pyrodex? It's cheaper, it cleans up well, smells more like real BP, and at least for me I could shoot a bit more without swabbing. I have a couple side-lock rifles and a Lyman side-lock pistol, would/will 777 ignite reliably?

 

[TDM]

Not arguing just interested in why no Pyrodex? It's cheaper, it cleans up well, smells more like real BP, and at least for me I could shoot a bit more without swapping. I have a couple side-lock rifles and a Lyman side-lock pistol, would/will 777 ignite reliably?

Using Pyrodex is not a crime. If that is all you have to use, then by all means use it and enjoy it. For me personally, if I'm shooting a black powder gun I choose to shoot real black powder in it. I used Pyrodex many years ago when it came out, don't remember any problems, still have a supply in storage. But again, from a personal standpoint that is both subjective and objective, this is a black powder sport. Lots of folks like 777, I have a few bottles of that too left over from a short foray with inlines a number of years ago. Never used 777 in a traditional ML but I hear tell it needs a small 5-10 grain BP base load or a hot ignition to set it off. Lots of information on that already on the forum.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Dale,
I’ve only used Pyrodex, both RS & P & real BP (Goex FFF). I have found the P granulation the less fouling. But I have found Pyrodex, either granulation, much less fouling than BP.
Why do you not like Pyrodex? Not arguing, just very interested in your thoughts and experiences. I haven’t shot MLs in years and not sure 777 was even yet available. My ML rifles are both sidelocks.

Pyrodex has always given me fits for it's propensity to misfire... especially in the RS granulation... with traditional side-lock guns. I also didn't like the marketing ploy about it not being corrosive at all, not being as corrosive as black powder and that it eliminates any need to clean the gun after shooting.

Much of this comes from my experiences dealing with angry customers who had a misfire while deer hunting... and there were lots of them... but also my own experiences with it. I find that it works OK with inline guns... including percussion revolvers, but so does 777, and with much less fouling and much less post-shooting corrosion because it contains no sulfur. I like to sight in the gun, clean it, fire a "fouling shot" and then leave it alone until after the season is over or after I shoot a deer. You can do this with 777, but not with Pyrodex and perhaps not with black powder either. Nothing is perfect.

I've had the same experiences as far as misfiring with 777 in the 2f granulation, but going to 3f seems to mitigate that issue greatly. I don't really like the "crud ring", but can live with it as I seldom shoot more than ten shots in a string.

I can't say I have noticed any less fouling with Pyrodex over actual black powder, but in recent years I have been using Old Eynsford 3f... which I am rapidly running out of... and all black powder is not created equal.

Basically, I view Pyrodex as having all the disadvantages of black powder (fouling, corrosion), at double the price and with a propensity to not go boom when it is supposed to. Do I use it? Not by choice, but I have and do use it when nothing else is available or when I happen to acquire some very cheaply or free. Right now I got one horn full of Pyrodex P with a bit more left in the bottle it came in. When it is all gone, I will not be replacing it unless I am forced to by circumstance.

Today I picked up a pound of 2f 777 at Cabella's. I was not happy with the price, nor the granulation, but nobody else in town seems to have any at all and it is better to have something to shoot... even with the need for a black powder duplex load... than to have nothing at all.

As soon as Goex goes back into production, I will hopefully acquire ten pounds of Old Eynsford, which might last me for the rest of my life.

 

[Bunk]

I have read reports from legitimate sources Pyrodex, unless very carefully cleaned, will micro etch some barrel steels. Not ruining the barrel but making a sligyt roughness to catch fouling.
I hate to say this but I date back to corrosive chlorate primers and caps which required careful cleaning with hot water and elbow grease to protect the bore.
God help you if the Top Sergeant found rust in your unmentionable M1 bore cause old Top would not forgive or forget.
Stay safe
Bunk

 

[mkabe]

Much thanks to you all, TDM, Dale, and Bunk, all good information. Unfortunately I can not find real BP here where I am in Kansas, and I've ask around several places. There is Pyrodex and 777 available at Cabela's, all over priced in my old mind, 777 is just shy of $40 ++, while Pyrodex RS was $25 and P $27/lb.

 

[TDM]

Much thanks to you all, TDM, Dale, and Bunk, all good information. Unfortunately I can not find real BP here where I am in Kansas, and I've ask around several places. There is Pyrodex and 777 available at Cabela's, all over priced in my old mind, 777 is just shy of $40, while Pyrodex RS was $25 and P $27/lb.

Plenty of online sources.

 

[mkabe]

Plenty of online sources.

Yes, but very substantial 'Hazmat' and other shipping charges for small lb. quantities. I don't unfortunately need 5+ or more pounds.
But thanks very much, unless I can find a local dealer with some BP I'll need to stay with a substitute. Forgive me!
Mk

 

[BadDaditood]

I Have .010, .015, and .020 I will try different sizes

Try .490” balls with the thickest patch you’re comfortable with and inspect patches after firing.
I recall TCs being tighter than other barrels.
I was taught to wipe the bore after loading but after finding the most accurate load (which always ends up tightly patched) that the patches come out clean.

 

[TDM]

Yes, but very substantial 'Hazmat' and other shipping charges for small lb. quantities. I don't unfortunately need 5+ or more pounds.
But thanks very much, unless I can find a local dealer with some BP I'll need to stay with a substitute. Forgive me!
Mk

Yes, I understand, but remember, the old saying that you have to pay to play is true. Not passing judgment, just stating what it is.

 

[BadDaditood]

PowderValleyInc is in Winfield KS

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/about-us/

 

[mkabe]

Yes, I understand, but remember, the old saying that you have to pay to play is true. Not passing judgment, just stating what it is.

I guess I'm just too old, as I remember, and have some real Goex BP with a price of $10/12 dollars a pound and Pyrodex of close to the same price. Now BP is almost unavailable and subs are way over priced. The country is going to hell I'm afraid, circling around the drain I fear.
But, a new generation carries on, thank God!

 

[mkabe]

PowderValleyInc is in Winfield KS

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/about-us/

Wow thanks, Winfield is only 40 miles away and a fun town to visit.
The problem is look what they presently have in stock and not.
Link: Black Powder and Substitutes Archives

 

[grimmpaul1]

Carry a small bottle of water or blue washer fluid or windex, something liquid. Next time you get a patch stuck in the bore, dump an ounce of fluid down on top of the patch and let soak for 30 seconds. Work the rod up and down and you will be able to pull the jag and patch free. Dry the bore and snap a cap and you can load the gun again.

Carry a small bottle of water or blue washer fluid or windex, something liquid. Next time you get a patch stuck in the bore, dump an ounce of fluid down on top of the patch and let soak for 30 seconds. Work the rod up and down and you will be able to pull the jag and patch free. Dry the bore and snap a cap and you can load the gun again.

Thanks

 

[TDM]

I guess I'm just too old, as I remember, and have some real Goex BP with a price of $10/12 dollars a pound and Pyrodex of close to the same price. Now BP is almost unavailable and subs are way over priced. The country is going to hell I'm afraid, circling around the drain I fear.
But, a new generation carries on, thank God!

I agree, I well remember paying $10-$12 a pound for Goex. All the change is hard to stomach. If Pyrodex works for you stick with it. And yes, the country has gone to hell.

 

[Vtmountaindeerhunter]

Mist a patch with alcohol. Mist not soak. Run patch down barrel with jag up down and out. Reload and shoot. Repeat. This will help you win . I guarantee you will load easily and increase velocity . Do this if you want to shoot like a pro. Get a spray bottle.

 

[Tanglefoot]

Starting out back in the 60's and 70's there weren't many patch lubes on the market. As they came available I tried quite a few different ones, but the best patch lube I ever used, bar none, was YCA #103 from Young Country Arms in Simi Valley, CA. The owner of Young Country Arms was a gentleman named William Young. He came up to me at a rendezvous in Colorado and introduced himself and told me about his product and offered me a sample to try. He claimed he had fired 103 rounds through his ML rifle without cleaning and with no fouling buildup. He went on to say that the bore had to be very clean and dry with all the oil residue removed down to bare metal, then wiped with a patch using his YCA#103 ... a light coating. Then load and shoot normally. I found that very hard to believe but decided to give it a try. At the time I was a contributing editor for the old Buckskin Report and I thought it would make a great subject for one of my articles. It did. I prepped one rifle and hauled my donkey off to the range the week after I got back from rendezvous. Making a long story short, I don't recall how many shots I got without fouling. I quit for the day that first day, took the rifle home and set it in the closet without cleaning --- which went against everything my father, my Basic Training DI, and the retired Marine Master Gunner who taught me many shooting skills ever drummed into my military mind about keeping a weapon clean. As I recall, that first day I had run up about 50 shots. My rifle sat undisturbed for several days until I got the chance for some more range time but it loaded easily when I did, still using my normal .018" ticking patch lightly coated with the YCA#103 with a .490" round ball. Racked up a bunch more down-range. Kept doing that until somewhere around 125 fired rounds without cleaning the bore, my employer sent me on an overseas trip for several weeks, so I left the rifle and the lube with a buddy and asked him to continue the experiment. He did so. When I got back, the total had gotten close to 200 shots without cleaning the bore. I called the test finished, disassembled the gun and gave it a thorough cleaning. No rust. Cleaned it with hot water and mild soap, dried it, and wiped the bore with a #103 patch. Wrote the article and continued to use the product myself. William Young closed the business a few years ago, and I'm almost to the bottom of my very last jar of his patch lube. Still got that rifle and it still ain't rusty. Guess I'll go back to the home-made lube I used to make with beeswax and rendered bear grease .... or if I run out of rendered bear grease, Crisco. Probably just as well. At my age I probably don't have time to use up another whole bear's worth anyway dangitall!

 

[BadDaditood]

Starting out back in the 60's and 70's there weren't many patch lubes on the market. As they came available I tried quite a few different ones, but the best patch lube I ever used, bar none, was YCA #103 from Young Country Arms in Simi Valley, CA. The owner of Young Country Arms was a gentleman named William Young. He came up to me at a rendezvous in Colorado and introduced himself and told me about his product and offered me a sample to try. He claimed he had fired 103 rounds through his ML rifle without cleaning and with no fouling buildup. He went on to say that the bore had to be very clean and dry with all the oil residue removed down to bare metal, then wiped with a patch using his YCA#103 ... a light coating. Then load and shoot normally. I found that very hard to believe but decided to give it a try. At the time I was a contributing editor for the old Buckskin Report and I thought it would make a great subject for one of my articles. It did. I prepped one rifle and hauled my donkey off to the range the week after I got back from rendezvous. Making a long story short, I don't recall how many shots I got without fouling. I quit for the day that first day, took the rifle home and set it in the closet without cleaning --- which went against everything my father, my Basic Training DI, and the retired Marine Master Gunner who taught me many shooting skills ever drummed into my military mind about keeping a weapon clean. As I recall, that first day I had run up about 50 shots. My rifle sat undisturbed for several days until I got the chance for some more range time but it loaded easily when I did, still using my normal .018" ticking patch lightly coated with the YCA#103 with a .490" round ball. Racked up a bunch more down-range. Kept doing that until somewhere around 125 fired rounds without cleaning the bore, my employer sent me on an overseas trip for several weeks, so I left the rifle and the lube with a buddy and asked him to continue the experiment. He did so. When I got back, the total had gotten close to 200 shots without cleaning the bore. I called the test finished, disassembled the gun and gave it a thorough cleaning. No rust. Cleaned it with hot water and mild soap, dried it, and wiped the bore with a #103 patch. Wrote the article and continued to use the product myself. William Young closed the business a few years ago, and I'm almost to the bottom of my very last jar of his patch lube. Still got that rifle and it still ain't rusty. Guess I'll go back to the home-made lube I used to make with beeswax and rendered bear grease .... or if I run out of rendered bear grease, Crisco. Probably just as well. At my age I probably don't have time to use up another whole bear's worth anyway dangitall!

Still half full…