Chopping down a Bess.

[Maverick3855]

I have a Pedersoli Bess.
It's a little awkward in the dense pacific northwest forest that I hunt in.
I'm considering chopping the barrel off just behind the first "trumpet shaped" ramrod pipe which would reduce the barrel 10-1/2 inches and make the barrel 31-1/2 inches overall.
Would I lose substantial velocity doing this?
I'd just shape the end like the old tower pistols with no nose cap.
It sure seems like it would be a much handier length. (If I can slide it past the little woman since she bought it for me)
I don't use it for any military re-enacment and think it would be much more functional in dense woods.

 

[Many Klatch]

Roger's Rangers chopped 7 to 8 inches off the barrels of their Bess. A small pile of barrel ends was found on Rogers Island by Archeologists. Looks like you can cut down the barrel and still be historically accurate. That will also give you an opportunity to solder a better front sight on.

Many Klatch

 

[Maverick3855]

Roger's Rangers chopped 7 to 8 inches off the barrels of their Bess. A small pile of barrel ends was found on Rogers Island by Archeologists. Looks like you can cut down the barrel and still be historically accurate. That will also give you an opportunity to solder a better front sight on.

Many Klatch

I seem to recall them findng sawed off barrel sections at Michilimacinac as well.
And yes that big rectangular front sight does leave a little to be desired.
I am also considering tuning up the lock springs, and polishing the sears, re-hardening the frizzen and installing a touch hole liner as well as shortening the barrel and installing a new sight.
Bess's are cool but I think it can be hot rodded a bit and made a more efficient hunting tool with some tweaking.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Consider these points. You will loose velocity and accuracy. You will have a much shorter sighting plane. You will also destroy any value your gun has for resale.
I have hunted with guns with barrels as long as 60" with no problems, you just have to avoid the pucker brush, you'll never get a shot with out your ball hitting a stray branch in that thick vegetation anyway.
I have a first model Bess, I'd never consider cutting it off.

 

[DanChamberlain]

Maverick

You will lose some velocity. You will not lose accuracy. You will lose some of the ease at which accuracy and precision is attained, but with a smoothbore Bess, you should easily be able to do what you were able to do before. Beyond the 50 to 70 yards effective to the smoothbore, the lenght of the barrel past a certain point is more a matter of balance as opposed to balistics.

If you want to keep your gun somewhat historically correct, you might keep your cut within that which was historically noted, but since your gun is "your" gun, it's your choice. If it pleases you, you won't lose anything.

I love carbine length guns. If you are in the thick stuff, you are not going to miss the extra length.

Dan

 

[Maverick3855]

Consider these points. You will loose velocity and accuracy. You will have a much shorter sighting plane. You will also destroy any value your gun has for resale.
I have hunted with guns with barrels as long as 60" with no problems, you just have to avoid the pucker brush, you'll never get a shot with out your ball hitting a stray branch in that thick vegetation anyway.
I have a first model Bess, I'd never consider cutting it off.

Resale could be an issue if I was to sell it but I rarely sell anything I like, I have guns I have owned for 40 years.
The wife bought this one for me and that alone prohibits any future sale
I did run it by her this morning and she gave me an OK to modify it saying "it's your gun"
I'm not sure accuracy is an issue as I read once of the British sawing off Bess barrels incrementally and it did not affect accuracy until they got below 24 inches.
This would be almost 32 inches long so I should be OK in that regard.
I also use this gun as a trekking shotgun about 99% of the time when I do use it.
I rarely shoot round ball out of it anyway.
I have taken deer with it but the 75 caliber ball does a lot of damage with 75 grains of powder and is kind of overkill for deer.
I also have a friend in Colorado who gets his deer every year with a 24 inch barreled Northwest "Canoe Gun" He doesn't seem to have accuracy problems shooting round ball out of a short smooth bore.
My only real concern is velocity.
I DO live in Grizzly country and if I am in an area with a lot of bear sign I will stuff a round ball in it and cross my fingers.
That's my main concern and even then I think having a shorter barrel would be handier as all the bears I run into are at relatively short distances 25-30 yards usually.
I've almost convinced myself.
The sight radius with a 31 or 32 inch barrel is still longer than on all my centerfire rifles and my Track of the Wolf Hawken by 11 or 12 inches so That won't be an issue.
It is virtually identical sight radius to My Sharps which has a 32 inch barrel as well.
My Hawken Barrel was shortened by TOW to 32 inches but has a shorter sight radius as the rear sight is further up the barrel similar to my centerfires.
I'm hoping someone has some experience shooting shorter barreled smoothbores to give me that extra little push to start the project.
I would use this gun about 100 times more often if it were a little handier and shorter.
It doesn't do me a lot of good hanging on the wall collecting dust.
Sorry this was long winded.
I'm still trying to convince myself.
I'm about 99% there!

 

[Maverick3855]

Maverick

You will lose some velocity. You will not lose accuracy. You will lose some of the ease at which accuracy and precision is attained, but with a smoothbore Bess, you should easily be able to do what you were able to do before. Beyond the 50 to 70 yards effective to the smoothbore, the lenght of the barrel past a certain point is more a matter of balance as opposed to balistics.

If you want to keep your gun somewhat historically correct, you might keep your cut within that which was historically noted, but since your gun is "your" gun, it's your choice. If it pleases you, you won't lose anything.

I love carbine length guns. If you are in the thick stuff, you are not going to miss the extra length.

Dan

Thanks Dan! You may have just given me that extra push I needed from my long winded post above :wink:

 

[BrownBear]

My Pedersoli Bess is factory original with a barrel right at 30". I have no stake in the historically accurate game, so that wasn't even a consideration when I picked it up. I bought it because it's lively as can be in your hands and well balanced, even for wing shooting. I have no frame of reference for how much more accuracy I could wring out of it with a longer barrel, but it's plenty accurate for my hunts, as is. And it's dandy in the brush.

If I didn't hunt brush, I'd have nowhere to hunt. The last deer I shot, I jumped it out of its bed at 10 feet or so and dropped it inside 20 yards before it was out of sight. Not only would there have been no room for swinging a longer barrel, but if the gun hadn't been "lively" in my hands, there's no way I could have swung it fast enough to catch up with the deer. It's all about your local conditions and what works best for you. I love my long guns on the range, but they mostly stay home when there's blood to be let. On the other hand, if I was hunting more open country there probably wouldn't be a short gun in my rack. Sounds like you have all your ducks in a straight line, especially the one that bought you the Bess.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Resale could be an issue if I was to sell it but I rarely sell anything I like, I have guns I have owned for 40 years.

Nobody lives forever and you'll be cheating your widow out of the gun's full value. :wink:

 

[Maverick3855]

Resale could be an issue if I was to sell it but I rarely sell anything I like, I have guns I have owned for 40 years.

Nobody lives forever and you'll be cheating your widow out of the gun's full value. :wink:

LOL! I have instructions to be buried with that particular gun actually.
Seriously
She will live quite comfortably off the rest of my collection :wink:

 

[Old40Rod]

I'm with Mr. Brooks on this one... and in any event you are missing a great opportunity to convince your wife that you need to make a rifle to fit your needs :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Every one of us with a gun collection would do our heirs, and wives a favor, if we took each gun out, shot a good group with it, and listed the load data on the target. Then put the target in plastic, and attach it to the rifle. Or, if you have lots of guns, then then make a file for all the targets and put a reference to this Information source with your funeral and burial instructions. I would include any special work done on the gun, and WHY it was done. The target tells potential buyers if the gun can SHOOT ! That is the most important thing you can do to maximize resale value. Then, keep the guns clean, and oiled, so they are in very fine condition in the even a Mack truck falls out of the sky on your head! :hmm: :shocked2:

Keeping a current Value list with the guns, updated annually, is also a great help to those family members who have NO interest in guns at all. There is No reason your family should be cheated out of the proper value of a firearm by some slickster taking advantage of their ignorance. Visit gun auctions in your area. We found that guns were bring a lot more than we would have thought, and some guns used were being sold for more than a retail price on the same gun! Auctions can be funny that way, but if you are wanting to take care of your surviving family by selling the guns after your death, these are the things you can do- its your hobby--- for them, so you can give them guidance from instructions. If the Wife can't tell a Brown Bess from a .30-30 carbine, consider asking a shooting buddy to be a co-executor, for the purpose of helping her identify the guns, and price them correctly. If you have accessories for a gun, like a range box, and/or hunting pouch for each caliber rifle you own, make a note of that in your written records, with an indication of where you store these things, and what they look like. Used guns always bring more money if you are including Ammo, components, loading and cleaning equipment, horn(s), powder, and hunting bags.

For example, a friend just bought a Pre-64 Win. Model 70, in .270 caliber. He got a very good price on it, because there were some scratches to the finish, and the seller had no idea if the gun shot well or not. He did include some extras- like a Scope sight on the gun. The Scope is wrong for the gun, but its worth $75-$100 itself. :thumbsup:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Paul, I agree with you completely. :shocked2: Damn that's scary :haha: ....
I have worked in the biggest gun auction house in the country. Any gun that has been buggered with brings little money. But on the other hand Any well maintained gun with a good bore will bring top dollar. Many of the guns being sold at auction, probably more than 50% were being sold for widows who's husbands had croaked and left collections of hundreds of guns to be disposed of.....you may think you'll keep your guns forever, but your wife will eventually sell them. :haha:
But it's your gun, saw it off and they can bundle it together with some other stuff so they can get a couple hundred dollars for the whole lot... just something to think about. :wink:

 

[Okwaho]

I agree with Paul and Mike here and would add to their posts that in addition to the value of any gun that a record be kept as to the price actually paid.I have seen several instances of collectors buying a gun for a hefty amount but then telling the wife that the gun was bought for far less. The result could be that the widow would sell the gun for what her late husband told her that he paid when in reality he paid far more.One doesn't have to tell her lest it precipitate marital stress but rather could leave the information with one's executor or a trusted friend.I also remember hearing of several unscrupulous collectors who contact widows immediately after the funeral and since her only idea of value was the erroneous even ridiculously low figure given her by her late husband were able to acquire guns quite cheaply.
Tom Patton

 

[tg]

I would opt for leaving it as is,I have hunted for several years with 42"-44" barrels in the Oregon coastal Mts.and the brush choked bottom lands along the creeks and rivers, and have found little difference between carrying one of the long guns and a 36" barrel, it may make us better hunters if it did slow a person down a bit.There seems to be a lot of concern about long guns in the brush but I have not found the problem yet I guess, I suspect much of it is from being brought up with todays short guns and the transition may be a bit overwhelming, I would think that after a few outings one would get used to the longer guns but maybe not everyone does or wants to.

 

[Maverick3855]

I would opt for leaving it as is,I have hunted for several years with 42"-44" barrels in the Oregon coastal Mts.and the brush choked bottom lands along the creeks and rivers, and have found little difference between carrying one of the long guns and a 36" barrel, it may make us better hunters if it did slow a person down a bit.There seems to be a lot of concern about long guns in the brush but I have not found the problem yet I guess, I suspect much of it is from being brought up with todays short guns and the transition may be a bit overwhelming, I would think that after a few outings one would get used to the longer guns but maybe not everyone does or wants to.

I don't believe its a transitional thing.
I've been carrying 42 inch long rifles for about 30 years now.
I am beginning to see why so many old original muskets have been cut down though.
They are just handier.
As far as value I see Bess trade guns every so often at rendezvous and online and quite honestly if they are nicely done they go for almost as much as a used complete Bess.
As I said though this particular gun will be buried with me anyway.
I'm taking one with me just in case

 

[rich pierce]

You can always shorten a gun. Lengthening them is a different deal.

 

[old ugly]

sounds like you have a pedersoli brown bess to me so i don,t understand all the bla bla bla . chop the thing down . you are not wrecking any thing historic . you may loose a few bucks in dollar value but go buy a new car and see how much you loose in the first year in depreciation . have fun with it

 

[Many Klatch]

I shoot a Pedersoli Bess Carbine. I use 90 grains of 2f and a .715 ball with a .010 spit patch. I can shoot a ragged hole at 25 yards with it and I can hit a 36 inch gong at 100 yards about 3 out of 5 shots. This Bess has beaten all comers both rifles and smoothbores at a couple of shoots. The gun has been tweaked some. The trigger pull is about 6 or 7 pounds, the front sight has been improved and there is a deep notch in the tang that improves the sight picture. The touch hole is about 1/8". It goes off fast and is reliable.

Many Klatch

 

[Mulebrain]

If it was original, I would say please don't do any modifications!


Cutting down a reproduction Bess, isn't going to hurt the value that much if done properly. Remember that they even sell a shorter version like the one I had.

I would just make the conversion look like their shorter version they sell!

No big deal!