Chain Fire Workaround: Skip Every Other Chamber?

[Col. Batguano]

I've had a couple. About 45 years ago, when I was new to the BP game. One was the adjacent bore, and the other was at the 6:00 position. Made for an interesting swage in to the loading lever. I don't shoot those guns much anyway, but not because of that. I shoot flint single shots more.

 

[Stantheman86]

These guns have existed since 1836 I'm sure there isn't a hypothesis, theory or idea that hasn't been tested or thought of.

I can't get into that here but many other types of weapons have inherent quirks as well.

I mean we have the freedom to try to out think technology that has existed for nearly 200 years but in my opinion, it is what it is , you get what you get. The inherent design of the percussion revolver lends itself to chain fires. Technology advanced and the issue became more of a thought for hobbyists and recreational shooters after the percussion revolver ceased to be used by the military and lawmen.

The effective service period of percussion revolvers was about 40 years, less than that really as rimfire conversions began to be done in the immediate post war period. In the scheme of things, given the use of flintlock muskets in combat for over 150 years, 40 years is a short time. Chain Fires were something rare that was just dealt with in the period and likely was far less common than we imagine but common enough that Sam Colt was aware of the issue.

Tight fitting balls and bullets, properly fitted caps. Just shoot the guns , and just have fun. When I was younger I used to overthink a lot of shooting stuff , now I just keep things simple .

 

[Dashing Leper]

So, the sentiment here is "Don't go asking stupid questions because this stuff is old and somebody reached an answer before you were born, but rather than let you find that answer yourself, we'll just tell you to ignore the question and just do things perfectly and there won't be a problem..."

 

[Phil Coffins]

Yep.

 

[Stantheman86]

Feel free to experiment and find solutions to your heart's content man. I'm not sure what else you want us to tell you.

I spent 3 months of my life trying to test shotgun slugs out of my .69 Smoothbore and also NC "Nesslers" trying to rethink and recreate historical "workarounds " and I think exactly 4 people kinda cared and 10 people watched my YouTube video.

I had fun and I still play around with making my "Nessler Cartridges " but again , I'm working within the confines of 150-200 year old technology . Someone did find a "workaround " for smoothbore accuracy , it's called rifling, then metallic cartridges , then repeating arms . I learned to just enjoy my hobby within the historical limits.

I'm not out here trying to add fuel injection to a Model T. Just enjoy the Model T.

 

[Grenadier1758]

This is the modern solution to the chain fire problem with a revolver.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Here I am being snarky about the chain fire question.

Unfortunately there seems to be two solutions to the chain fire issue.
1. Use a single shot pistol. Not a good answer since we want to shoot five or six shots in our revolver.
2. Use proper fitting balls and proper fitting caps on the nipples. The nipples need the small flash holes to limit the fire coming back and perhaps setting off the adjacent cylinder.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

So, no curiosity in this bunch... Believe me, finding out this doesn't work is just as good as seeing if it does. At least we can either add it to our list of possible options or we can educate others that this won't keep a poorly loaded chamber from catching a flashover.

Are you intentionally ignoring the observations previously posted prior to your writing this comment ?

The chain fire is not from a properly loaded cylinder where each ball is fully swaged into the diameter of each chamber, because the spark would have to be deflected into a chamber, somehow make its way between the swaged ball and the wall of the chamber, to the powder... and do this in every loaded chamber in the cylinder.

A chain fire is from having a series of loose caps and the ignition of one of the caps causes flash over from that explosion to the next nipple, and so on and so on....

So because the premise hasn't identified the problem, results from the "testing" won't tell you if it "works" or doesn't. IF you have properly tight fitting caps, and you properly load every other chamber, of course you will have "success" but it won't be from skipping the chambers, you see.

IF you want to test the problem, first you need to find a condition of loading where the caps are consistently loose, and when you load only two cylinders, side by side, as you fire one cylinder the additional loaded cylinder normally goes off as well. Then you can load every other cylinder with this condition, and see if the gap from skipping every other chamber prevents the flashover from the fired cap from reaching any of the distant caps.

LD

 

[Phil Coffins]

If the flash to the next chamber caused a chain fire how do we explain the 6 o’clock chamber going off? As LD states try as many experiments as entertains you. For many of us all this was figured out a very long time ago so we don’t go looking for a new solution to a none existent problem.

 

[gholt92083]

Load each chamber as it was back in the day, forget using the wonder wad or continue using it but paddle lube over the top of the round balls or bullet. Blow off excess powder from the cylinder mouth and use a round ball that cuts the excess lead away. Use a #10 cap on a #10 nipple.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Load each chamber as it was back in the day, forget using the wonder wad or continue using it but paddle lube over the top of the round balls or bullet. Blow off excess powder from the cylinder mouth and use a round ball that cuts the excess lead away. Use a #10 cap on a #10 nipple.

How much grease remains after a shot or two? I suspect this recommendation was invented back in the 1960's to help sell Crisco. Have never seen a period photo showing that any substance was placed over the ball. I agree with eliminating the wonder wad as this allows for the addition of more powder.

 

[1861colt]

http://www.geojohn.org/BlackPowder/bps2Mobile.html
Here is a link that gives info to blow some theories. There is a lot of reading in that link but it is quite an education. Shoot without capping the other chambers and you dont get chain fires. Interesting. Of course you have to do what GeoJohn says first as I briefly mention now. Light Chamfer chamber mouths and ball will swage fit. Use lube behind bullet not in front. In front all lube gets blown away and you can still get a chain fire because while loading after you use crisco the powder grains get everywhere along chamber walls and mouths. Smash a ball down in that condition, grains are eventually going to get trapped by the bullet and pulverized along the side of the chamber leaving a fuse line from top of bullet to bottom. The next layer of crisco wont stop the inevitable as the flash blows out the grease and down the fuse channel to the charge below.

 

[Barry Strickland]

I bought my first cap and ball revolver in 1965 a '61 Colt 44. A friend told me to load it with xx grains of powder and a 451 ball then cover the chamber with Crisco. It worked and worked well. When I got into actual pistol competition that is what I used. I never had a multiple chamber discharge. I switched to a Old Army as soon as they came on the market. With it I used 22 gr. powder, COW on top of that and a 457 RB. It always has cut a fine lead ring off the ball when loading. I use a soft sealer on top of the chamber. I have no idea how many thousands of rounds I have shot out of that revolver. I shoot competition at Friendship, local shoots and territorials. I have never seen a multiple discharge in all those years of competition either by me or any of the other shooter. If you are not aware of the National Match Course it is 100 shots, targets at 25 and 50 yards. 30 shots single shot pistol, 30 shots flintlock pistol and 40 shots revolver. That is a lot of revolver shooting.
The only person I know of that had a multiple discharge is a fellow I know that related to me this story. He bought a C&B revolver and did not know much about them. He told me the balls fit rather loosely were tight enough to stay in the chambers while he capped the cylinder. When he fired he had a multiple discharge which scared him badly. He then found someone who was familiar with C&B revolvers and showed him the proper way to load. One of the things he does after seating the ball is to put drops of oil around the ball for a sealer. Odd, but it works for him.

 

[Gun Tramp]

One of the things he does after seating the ball is to put drops of oil around the ball for a sealer.

Now that's interesting. I want to try it.

 

[Gee Dog]

What kind of "oil"? That should really be clarified.

Olive oil in a little dropper bottle is a handy thing. Works for both sealing and lube. Go to using petroleum based oil and you'd be screwed.

 

[Stantheman86]

I think I'll pass on any oil in my chambers

 

[Gun Tramp]

Olive oil in a little dropper bottle is a handy thing. Works for both sealing and lube

Thanks for the tip, Gee Dog; I'd planned on trying olive oil but hadn't thought of the dropper bottle.

 

[rodwha]

I have a real hard time buying that powder granules, being so much softer than lead, could etch a furrow in it leaving this powder trail.

As an aside the only chainfire I’ve been around was with my father who uses felt wads. Seems like that would have to have been the nipples since a felt wad, being slightly oversized, should scrape any powder stuck to the chamber. But then without gobbing any lube there shouldn’t have been any to stick to.

 

[1861colt]

I have a real hard time buying that powder granules, being so much softer than lead, could etch a furrow in it leaving this powder trail.

As an aside the only chainfire I’ve been around was with my father who uses felt wads. Seems like that would have to have been the nipples since a felt wad, being slightly oversized, should scrape any powder stuck to the chamber. But then without gobbing any lube there shouldn’t have been any to stick to.

Yes, the powder may seem softer, but it is isn't. The mohs hardness of sulfur is 1.5 - 2.5 with hexagonal and pointed crystals. Saltpeter is 1.5 - 2 with long flat crystals. Lead is 1.5 with wide flat feathered crystals. So the hardness of the components of the powder is higher than lead and the powder will win out given the right circumstances. How else can you explain a chainfire occuring from the front of a chamber where the flash got past the ball even when you get a cutoff ring of lead while the ball is going into the chamber. Everyone tells us to put lube over the front of the ball for keeping fouling soft and to prevent chainfires, so the awareness of the possibility is there, just people don't know why or how it does occur.
Look at the other end of the cylinder. With an empty cylinder, put loose fitting caps on all six, aim gun down so they don't fall off and pop off the caps. Each will fire with each pull. There will be no caps blowing up from the flash of the others.

 

[1861colt]

I left something out." Don't put caps on 5 of the 6 chambers and fire it then cap only the next and fire it. Do it all the way around and you won't get a chain fire." I didn't include that you MUST follow the procedure on this site (
http://www.geojohn.org/BlackPowder/bps2Mobile.html) first to best eliminate any other variables in doing this live ammunition test.