CAP AND BALL SLOW MOTION VIDEO

[Dude]

Since I'm new to these BP pistols and haven't smoked any of them yet, could you wise old veterans describe what it's like having a chain fire? Yeah, I can guess there's a whole lotta smoke and surprise, but what happens to the gun? I can't imagine a bunch of lead slamming into it does much good, though it couldn't achieve high velocity in that short distance.

Considering the flash from the cylinder/barrel gap, I can see how it's possible for ignition to occur that way. Frankly, I don't see why either scenario (chain fire ignition from the breech or muzzle end) can't be possible.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Yes, there is a whole lot of surprise and a lot of smoke. There's a lot of how did that happen and its not supposed to happen and how can I prevent it from happening.

What happens to the gun? Fortunately, not much if you are using soft lead balls or soft lead conical bullets. There will be some lead smearing on the frame or the wedge if shooting a Colt replica.

 

[TFoley]

Both theories seem to be correct.

Yes and no.

 

[Dude]

Is there a lot of recoil? Does the gun really jump?

Does the lead uncork the chamber or is the pressure relieved through the nipple?

What do you mean, "Yes and no"? (a comment like that is ONE way to prolong a conversation)

 

[rodwha]

Since I'm new to these BP pistols and haven't smoked any of them yet, could you wise old veterans describe what it's like having a chain fire? Yeah, I can guess there's a whole lotta smoke and surprise, but what happens to the gun? I can't imagine a bunch of lead slamming into it does much good, though it couldn't achieve high velocity in that short distance.

Considering the flash from the cylinder/barrel gap, I can see how it's possible for ignition to occur that way. Frankly, I don't see why either scenario (chain fire ignition from the breech or muzzle end) can't be possible.

A test was done with 30 grns of 3F (standard Goex) and a ball and it produced 7 ft/lbs of energy IIRC (and if not I’m not far off). They figured at worst it might bruise you but likely wouldn’t break the skin.

 

[Henry Miles]

A test was done with 30 grns of 3F (standard Goex) and a ball and it produced 7 ft/lbs of energy IIRC (and if not I’m not far off). They figured at worst it might bruise you but likely wouldn’t break the skin.

You got to be kiddin' me! People are killing deer with these pistols at 20-30yds. Not a reliable test, I promise you.

 

[Hawken]

The chain fired projectile is undoubtedly what that refers to.

 

[rodwha]

You got to be $hitin' me! People are killing deer with these pistols at 20-30yds. Not a reliable test, I promise you.

They are not killing deer with the balls discharged from a chainfire, that I can guarantee.

 

[Mustakrakish]

I'd really like to see any/all videos of "chain fires"

The one that I mentioned earlier:

 

[Dude]

They are not killing deer with the balls discharged from a chainfire, that I can guarantee.

Ha hahahah ha

Paul Harrell tested for chain fires at the breech by removing the other five caps. That tells me the sparks (if there are any) can't take the right angle turn into the nipple to ignite the chambers. However, what about a spark or the heat igniting a cap on an adjacent nipple?

 

[Bad Karma]

You got to be $hitin' me! People are killing deer with these pistols at 20-30yds. Not a reliable test, I promise you.

Load a standard cylinder from a .44 caliber revolver with as much powder as will fit under the ball. Now, find a way to ignite the loaded chamber without mounting the cylinder in a pistol. You’re not going to get more than a hundred fps or so from the cylinder only. 30 grains behind a ball and fired through a 3” barrel doesn’t hit more than 500 fps... and that is what happens during a chainfire. The barrel gives the charge time to build pressure. Pressure yields velocity. Longer barrel (within limits) more time. More time more pressure.

The balls on either side of the one in line with the barrel do not gain any useful energy from the charge.

 

[toot]

Here is how I load the short barrel:
View attachment 71430View attachment 71431View attachment 71432View attachment 71433

NOW I RELY LIKE THAT. WHERE DID YOU EVER COME UP WITH THAT IDEA? it is novel!!! never seen it before and never thought about it> it sure beats beating the ball's into the calendar!!

 

[Henry Miles]

You got to be kiddin' me! People are killing deer with these pistols at 20-30yds. Not a reliable test, I promise you.

My bad. I took the post out of context...

 

[B P Arn]

NOW I RELY LIKE THAT. WHERE DID YOU EVER COME UP WITH THAT IDEA? it is novel!!! never seen it before and never thought about it> it sure beats beating the ball's into the calendar!!

The spare barrel I bought came with a loading lever, but no wedge. The original wedge from my revolver fit with both the new barrel and the original, so, fortunately for me, I did not need another wedge.

That left me with the spare loading lever, and I pondered a way to be able to use a long lever for use with my short barrel for easy loading, and have it be detachable when not needed. I made the pin from the latch from an old screen door, then drilled out the loading lever pin's hole threads to fit the new removable pin. Then I bent a large nail and welded that to the lever and tied the lever and pin together with a leather shoelace.

Here is a picture of the final development of the lever and pin.

 

[rodwha]

Ha hahahah ha

Paul Harrell tested for chain fires at the breech by removing the other five caps. That tells me the sparks (if there are any) can't take the right angle turn into the nipple to ignite the chambers. However, what about a spark or the heat igniting a cap on an adjacent nipple?

It’s all mind boggling. Improperly fitting caps leaves a tiny, tiny avenue. Even capless it’s a 180* turn. But then a lead projectile that’s friction fit would leave no gap. Maybe the chamber walls are rough enough or the chamber out of round might allow for some space. I don’t buy the idea that powder gets crushed leaving a trail. Powder isn’t stronger than lead. The only chainfire I’ve witnessed had to come from the rear as my father uses wads. I asked how the caps fit years down the road, but he doesn’t recall and doesn’t shoot that gun anymore.

 

[Travler]

Great topic. Thanks all for th he back and forth. Truly. I had been taught that chain fires were from the front and how to avoid that. If we believe that they can happen from the nipple side, not doubting mind you, what to do? In addition to right fitting and well seated caps, do we apply grease around the caps?

Also, just to lighten up the mood, I hate when my single shot chain fires.....

 

[Henry Miles]

I've never had a chain fire. I've always used balls that shaved lead going in the cylinder, grease over the ball or wads over the powder and caps that fit the nipples. At least I know if you take all necessary precautions, you don't have chain fires. They can come from either end, obviously. Be safe and shoot straight!

 

[toot]

I can't beleave that you came up with that idea that it would work' and because of it we will all benefit from your sharing it with us, thank you.

 

[B P Arn]

Thank you; I'm glad you liked it.
Here is a picture of a similar piece of hardware that I used to make the quick-detach loading lever pin:

 

[Blitz]

Exactly. Remember hearing that we should shoot over fresh snow and look for unburned powder? I’ve heard that of people doing this over a sheet or tarp and being unable to ignite the residue. Residue which looks suspiciously like fouling...

Not trying to stir the pot .
I have had ejected unburned powder ignite when firing a subsequent shot, so I decide to load a bit less powder.
I bieliev I was using 2f at 60 grains in a single shot percussion pistol.

Buzz