Cannon projectiles

[utahhntnful]

I am a newbie with cannons, I just purchased a proven cannon from a qualified cannoneer, I have been looking at making my own projectiles, besides lead, I know I need to get a RB mold!
My Bore will barely will accomodate an Aluminum tomato/V8/drink, juice can, so close in fact I cannot get a pillow tick patch in between I Have shot a few of these which I cut to about 3/4 size and then fill with Plaster, Not the best results though!! they slice or hook (Golf terms here) I think because of the dimpled end of the can!!
I have came up with a way to incorperate a conical lead end onto the can, I have not tried these yet.
Q. Has any body out there tried this type of projectile with good results??
Q. Should I/do I Need to patch ? Maybe with a Cotton patch? thin like a T shirt?
If I can figure how to send a picture of my Cannon and Projectiles,, they will be forth coming.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Never tried patching a cannon ball. :wink: Back in the day, we used the tin can round but filled with concrete...you need a bit of weight to the projectile to prevent "if it goes left it's a hook; if it goes right it's a slice; if it goes straight, it's a miracle!" :haha:
I may have that backwards...old T-shirt of my wife's and I'm no golf guy! Got tired of filling divots and wading in brush! :rotf:

 

[robert reed]

:nono:
Please do not shoot a bore sized lead ball out of your cannon!!!! That is called an obstruction! Cannon balls are iron. Use over powder wadding not a patch. Concrete filled cans should be ok.
If you just want to make smoke and noise,I use aluminum foil balls. Confetti is bonus!

 

[Treestalker]

Glad to hear you escaped the killing fields of golf and have taken up the manly art of artillery! Projectile use in your cannon depends on it's type of manufacture (cast iron with a steel sleeve with a press fitted and welded breechplug?) I'm guessing your bore is about 1 7/8" to 2 1/8". It should not be too hard to obtain a mould. I've been advised that zinc makes a decent round ball projectile ( think recycled drawer pulls) similar in weight to Iron, but I have zero experience with it. Dixie sells a 'fishing net weight mould', which casts 2 sizes about 1 1/2" and 1 3/4" if I recall. I have one but it is aluminum and probably not good for zinc casting. Another option is making balls out of Bondo. Very light and short range, Hope this helps, and you're on your own, Bwana! Tree.

 

[Col. Batguano]

How about hand balls or racquet balls? Are those close to your bore size? I would think you might be able to get used dead ones pretty cheap. Drill a hole in them and fill them with your favorite filling; concrete or plaster. As always, start out with light loads. Because they're rubber they might leave skid marks in your barrel.

Another metal that is commonly cast and used is zinc. It's substantially lighter than lead.

 

[utahhntnful]

Thank you,
if i were to cast out of lead do not use bore size got it!! Can I go abit smaller and shoot lead? how much smaller? Could I use ---say wheel weights to cast a ball out of ? I understand they contain more Tin? which I understand is harder.

 

[Zonie]

I'm not a cannoneer but I think the reason the comment about using lead being dangerous is because of the weight of the projectile.

If you were shooting a 1 3/4 inch iron ball, it would weigh about 0.79 pounds.
If the 1 3/4 inch ball was made of lead it would weigh about 1.15 pounds. That's a 146 percent weight gain.

As you know, if the projectile weight goes up the pressures to shoot it out of the barrel go up too.

The bottom line is where shooting an iron ball may make a safe breech pressure, shooting a lead (or wheel weight) ball could raise the breech pressure so high the cannon barrel could blow up.

 

[robinghewitt]

Please do not shoot a bore sized lead ball out of your cannon!!!! That is called an obstruction! Cannon balls are iron.

I think you have that back to front.

If the ball is not perfectly round and the barrel not perfectly cylindrical there is a possibility that the ball could turn on the way out and discover a position where it no longer fits. If the ball is iron the cannon bursts. If it is lead the ball deforms or gets a high spot shaved off.

Iron cannon balls were made deliberately undersize to prevent this, they called it windage.

Nobody has ever suggested windage on a lead ball. They might suggest rolling them on a wood rasp, screwing wads to back end, carefully locating the sprue because it probably covers a void and so on, but never windage, that just makes then inaccurate :thumbsup:

 

[Col. Batguano]

As always, start with light loads and work up. That goes particularly for when you are increasing your projectile weight. In a 1.75" bore maybe your normal load is 700 gr. with an iron shot. If you back that down to 200 gr with the increased weight you should be ok with that as a starting point.

 

[utahhntnful]

Many thank yees,
If the ball---lead or ??? can roll down the barrel freely with very minimal clearance it should be OK then ??.
The breech is 2 x thicker than the bore,it is cast steel and has a steel liner,it has been shot lots. I did not get the load info that it had been shooting. (Dopey Me)
I want to shoot stuff, Paper, Targets, Drums, Mtns. Tyrannosauruses and the such. I just don't just want to deafen them.
Does anybody out there know if there is a rule of thumb, such as bore size to Wt.of projectile ratio.

 

[robert reed]

Try looking here: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/222426/#Cannon
:v out

 

[robert reed]

Squire,
I've been blowing stuff up for over 30 years, somehow I missed you country. Have a ball, I won't feel a thing from here. :blah:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Squire,
I've been blowing stuff up for over 30 years, somehow I missed you country.

so that was you, huh? *

 

[robert reed]

I swear THAT one wasn't me. :v
Merry Christmas

 

[davec2]

I cast the round shot I use with zinc...very close to the same density as cast iron. I suggest making (or having made) a precise round ball mold for your gun and casting the projectiles. Since the bore in my cannon is well drilled (i.e. very round and of constant diameter), and since the ball mold is very accurate and symmetrical, I now cast the balls very close to bore size.....makes for much more accurate shooting.

Here is a re-post of a shot I did a while back. This includes some photos of cast zinc round balls, etc.

On the 4th of July, I hauled out the cannon to fire off a few blank rounds on the front lawn for the neighbors.  

My daughters had been after me for some time to go and shoot the gun for real as they both had fond childhood memories of being picked up at their grade school by me in a 1989 Jeep Cherokee towing a trailer with three quarters of a ton of cannon on it.  The last time we had fired the big gun with cannon balls was in 1993.  She was 8 and her sister was 4 (they are both now in their 20’s).

I built the gun in 1970 when I was a junior in high school.  For two years I fired it at every football game.  The intent was to fire it every time we made a touchdown.  However, we didn’t have a very good team at the small private high school I attended, so I would fire the gun any time any body got a touchdown!  Everybody enjoyed it.  

As a side note, imagine how the world has changed in the last 40 years.  I used to show up at my high school football games towing a home made trailer carrying a full size cannon and a caisson with 50 pounds of black powder.  And no one even thought about calling the bomb squad.

At any rate, it took a lot more effort to get ready for a live fire event than I remembered.  Refurbish the gun, refurbish the gun trailer, prepare powder charges, cast cannon balls, build a target, etc., etc., and then con a bunch of my friends to help move and serve the gun.

Powder charges:

Cast Cannon balls:

Get the gun to the range and set it up:

Build and set up a target:

Teaching a neighbor lad how to worm and swab the gun:

My daughter and I discussing the fine art of aiming an artillery piece:

Friends and neighbors get a chance to fire a cannon:

Out of the first 12 rounds fired at a 250 yard target (48 inch black) 8 hit the target and four were near misses (one hit was on a bounce from a shot that was short).  The cast ball has way too much windage and I am modifying the ball mold to get a much better fit.  We should be able to keep all the rounds in a 4 foot bull at this range.

After the close range shooting, we were picking out targets at 600 yards and beyond on the range and did fairly well.  All in all, a very fun day.  It took four hours but we fired 32 round shot and a heck of a lot of black powder.

 

[davec2]

Zinc - very close to the same density as cast iron. Here is an old post that may be of some interest....


On the 4th of July, I hauled out the cannon to fire off a few blank rounds on the front lawn for the neighbors.  

My daughters had been after me for some time to go and shoot the gun for real as they both had fond childhood memories of being picked up at their grade school by me in a 1989 Jeep Cherokee towing a trailer with three quarters of a ton of cannon on it.  The last time we had fired the big gun with cannon balls was in 1993.  She was 8 and her sister was 4 (they are both now in their 20’s).

I built the gun in 1970 when I was a junior in high school.  For two years I fired it at every football game.  The intent was to fire it every time we made a touchdown.  However, we didn’t have a very good team at the small private high school I attended, so I would fire the gun any time any body got a touchdown!  Everybody enjoyed it.  

As a side note, imagine how the world has changed in the last 40 years.  I used to show up at my high school football games towing a home made trailer carrying a full size cannon and a caisson with 50 pounds of black powder.  And no one even thought about calling the bomb squad.

At any rate, it took a lot more effort to get ready for a live fire event than I remembered.  Refurbish the gun, refurbish the gun trailer, prepare powder charges, cast cannon balls, build a target, etc., etc., and then con a bunch of my friends to help move and serve the gun.

Powder charges:

Cast Cannon balls:

Get the gun to the range and set it up:

Build and set up a target:

Teaching a neighbor lad how to worm and swab the gun:

My daughter and I discussing the fine art of aiming an artillery piece:

Friends and neighbors get a chance to fire a cannon:

Out of the first 12 rounds fired at a 250 yard target (48 inch black) 8 hit the target and four were near misses (one hit was on a bounce from a shot that was short).  The cast ball has way too much windage and I am modifying the ball mold to get a much better fit.  We should be able to keep all the rounds in a 4 foot bull at this range.

After the close range shooting, we were picking out targets at 600 yards and beyond on the range and did fairly well.  All in all, a very fun day.  It took four hours but we fired 32 round shot and a heck of a lot of black powder.

 

[Wes/Tex]

"one hit was on a bounce from a shot that was short"...in the day it was called "grazing" and deliberately done against infantry lines. Took a good eye from the gun layer!

 

[Robert Egler]

I love the pic looking down the firing line, its like going to a dog show and having the entries be puppy, puppy, puppy, T-Rex... :grin:

 

[Odentheviking]

Gentleman, Not wishing to hijack this fine thread but also not wishing to start another.......
I understand not using lead for the projectile of a full scale down to a 1/4 scale gun, but what about these mini cannons that are 69 to 75 caliber? It seems they are designed to shoot a lead ball, correct? Just not patched!

 

[Julian Reynolds]

Paul, we regularly shoot mini-cannon competitions at our club. We always treat them just like black powder handguns, and use patched lead balls. Windage is only really an issue once you get above, say, an inch bore....