Can anybody help me to identify this precussion pistol?

[The Harmonica Man]

I found somone selling this Precussion pistol, but i cant realy identify it.
I think that it kinda looks like a "New Land Pattern Pistol", but theese where mostly flintlock ( i guess some where converted to precussion).
The only information about markings i can get from the owner is the date of "1860"

Anyway, if anybody could help me to identify this pistol it would be greatly appriciated.
Also, the owner wants 322 Euro's for it (although its probly gonna be possible to haggle), would such a prize be right for "what ever this is".

Im sorry about m bad english, but english is not my first language.
Im also sorry if i dint get the picture to work jsut right as this is my first time writing anything on this forum.

 

[Cowboy]

Would help to see the lock side of the pistol to include the lock my friend?

Also, top view looking down at the tang area?

With pistol upside down, another view of the pistol guard would also be helpful?

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[The Harmonica Man]

I shall contact the seller and ask him if he could send me some pictures of side whit the lock.
I shall also try to get some other pictures. the seller is selling it and a lot of other antique stuff, so i guess he dint bother taking other pictures.

 

[Cowboy]

Those different view angles will definitely help Identify your pistol in question my friend.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[rickystl]

It looks similar to the British East India Company (EIC) pistols. Possibly the 1802, and converted to percussion (see below), or Model 1843 made as percussion. But the ramrod looks a bit different and the curve of the grip appear more extreme.
As mentioned above, more photos will likely help.

Rick

 

[The Harmonica Man]

I got a picture of the side whit the lock plate now.
And a freind of mine thinks it might be a Enfield cavalry pistol from around the 1860's
The seller also told me that the lock works.

Here is also a picture of a enfield 1859 cavalry pistol, taken strait from the internet.

 

[Cowboy]

Hard for me to tell but is there any remnants of a crown either in front of the hammer or to the rear of the hammer?

I’m referring to the lock plate my friend.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[kje54]

I got a picture of the side whit the lock plate now.
And a freind of mine thinks it might be a Enfield cavalry pistol from around the 1860's
The seller also told me that the lock works.
View attachment 41118

Here is also a picture of a enfield 1859 cavalry pistol, taken strait from the internet.
View attachment 41119

I would say that's close enough to almost be a twin but with just a few differences........ Can't remember what it's call off hand (been having brain farts all week) but on the plate side the cavalry pistols had a strap slide w/ring attached with two screws. You could look to see if there are plugged screw holes in the one you're looking at, that would tell you if someone had removed it. Of course it could be the Enfield made without that part. It looks a lot closer to the Enfield that the EIC pistol does based on the angle of the grip.

 

[Rudyard]

It might be similar to factory work but its a bit rough and may be an sub continent copy .The barrel looks octagonal I believe it should be round .So my estimate is its not Government of any sort ,If you wanted a genuine article look elsewhere .And I would pass up on it .
Rudyard

 

[kje54]

It might be similar to factory work but its a bit rough and may be an sub continent copy .The barrel looks octagonal I believe it should be round .So my estimate is its not Government of any sort ,If you wanted a genuine article look elsewhere .And I would pass up on it .
Rudyard

You might be right about it being a copy, that possibility never crossed my mind.

 

[The Harmonica Man]

I cant say that i see any crown on the lock plate, but i belive the is a date marking and something else in front of the hammer.
As for the octagonal barrel, i do not know it is there, but when i look on the internet most pictures of the 1859 enfield pistol does have a octagonal barrel.
I might a be a copy of some sorts anyway. The seller (and me) lives in norway and i dont realy know if the norwegian military used enfield pistols.

 

[Rudyard]

If its octagonal it would be the only British service pistol that had octagonal . Perhaps Jim Hallam can clarifie this point I'le look it up in Brookers book. There where some Private purchase Irregular Cavalry pistols to arm the Sepoy Or Sowar NCOs. But these are not Ordnance & even if they served the East India Company they did so as' Irregulars' . The arms purchased by the Commanders & sold on to the Native troops who where escensially mercenaries .Very colourfull units along the North West Frontier.
Regards Rudyard

 

[The Harmonica Man]

Quite a lot of intresting possibilities whit this pistol.
I have learned quite a lot by starting this discussion.
ill try to find out if the norwegian military or navy at some time used pistols like this one.

 

[The Harmonica Man]

I dont know if you can make it our, but this marking (the only marking that i realy can find) seems to say something like "1859 enfield", but it could also be some other numbers.

 

[Cowboy]

I’m definitely no expert by any means but I doubt that the pistol in question is a reproduction gun. Pretty sure it’s an original. I’m tending to believe it’s military and of English manufacture.

Wondering if either hawkeye2 or Zonie are following this topic and wouldn’t mind chiming in ??

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[Cowboy]

Found this one on a civil war weapons sight. Enfield single shot pistol. 60 caliber. Of course this one has a nose cap and the pistol in question doesn’t

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

The snail on the drum looks slightly different, unless is just the light in the photograph. The hammer also looks slimmer. Could be the light...

 

[rickystl]

Those additional photos help. It does indeed "appear" to be an Enfield 1859 pistol. Or a facsimile of the same pistol using original surplus parts.
Note that it has only one lock plate screw. With a small wood screw in the front on the lock side itself. The inner curve of the grip area looks smallish and the toe too pronounced. The date stamp on the lock looks crude and probably spurious (?)
This gun looks like Afghan/Khyber Pass type work. I think the barrel, ramrod assembly, trigger/guard, and butt cap may all be original. I think the lock is a locally made "copy" of the Enfield lock. I think everything was stocked/re-stocked to look like the original 1859. Not necessarily as a tourist type item. A genuine pistol that would shoot. Just made up from whatever surplus parts were available at the moment.

Rick

 

[The Harmonica Man]

Ok. No matter if its an original enfield production or a khyber pass gun, would you guys agree whit th price the seller is asking?
He wants ca. 334 euros or ca. 397 US dollars (3500 NOK). Is this price too much for this gun or is it an ok price taking the age, possible origins (lets say its either a british produced gun or a khyber pass gun) and the overall condition into account.
Im unsure about how the bore looks, but i expect nothing good, but it might be ok for all i know.
As i have mentioned the lock works.

 

[Rudyard]

Ricksie & the photo has nailed it, spurios what ever age and the' Civil war' affair is the same' Got up, go off gun' but otherwise not as billed .I wouldn't give near 400$ but its not offered too nor appeals to me .Brookers book has nothing like it . Ide love to tell you its wonderfull but I cant .I am being honest.
I once was at a Friendship shoot and a hairy biker fellow wandered down the traders row carrying a old' Woofer' a cheap export shotgun . He asked my view as to value. I told him such guns where common , not much sought after and probable best market was as a wall hanger . Simply being honest. He Looked horrified .Shouting ."'But its Old !" .Its got a wire barrel !!" (twist)..His visions of thousands to buy his self a New Harley popped'' .He was Most upset. I stayed behind the counter & the dealer shepparded him away . Still exclaiming " Its old !'' I was going to say" Yes its old , I'me old but i,me not worth much'' . So its never allways prudent to say what you think to a query such as his or yours . But you asked & we responded. I do have a 1842 Kammer lader so cant be all wrong! made by G Decourtes of Liege square copper lined recess under the rear plate . However this is a BL so best not expand.
On the same theme a much 'got at' double was offerered me in Cawnpore eager eyes asked my views . I replied "Gangees" They puzzeld asked "Why for you say Gangees ?' I replied "Take it to the ghats and throw it into the Gangees " . They thought it was a great joke (but I was serious ) ..Thence forth the term "Gangees quality ' was currency between us . (Ghats are the pier like structures the bodies are burnt ere they push the remains into this sacred river )
Regards Rudyard