Building a unique wheellock from scratch

[Storm]

Greetings!

My name is Storm (not my "official" but I use this IRL) from Hungary. I've just registered here to ask some help with my project.

I'm planning to try and build a more or less unique wheellock pistol, or maybe carbine from scratch - except the barrel which I want to buy for optimum accuracy and safety.

The final piece should be similar to this:

I plan to work slowly as I have the time and money, mostly using hand tools. However, I never touched a muzzle loader, even if I did research and went to see some originals in museums, so I have a LOT of questions.

I will start as soon as I can turn the smaller room of my house into a small workshop, in best case in 1-2 months, but probably later. Until that I will do the research.

I have Lauber's plans but I want a unique piece, and also heard those have many mistakes and inaccuracies, so I will probably come up with my own slightly modified design, and work piece-by piece, in functional order.

First of all, if anyone can point me to other plans, or other technical information regarding wheellocks, I would be grateful. I've seen some links in this forum but they are all old and dead.

Second, I already have a set of practical questions, and hope that someboy might be able to help with them. here they are:

1;
I understand most of the wheellock's working, but some things I see on originals confuse me. Some of them have additional levers and other devices on the outside of the lock late, usually behind the wheel, and I couldn't figure what they are. Example:

See the two devices above the trigger and behind the wheel.

2;
Did all wheellocks use the V spring with chain attached, or where there other solutions for the main spring?

3;
Do you know of any safety mechanism wheellocks used? If yes, can you link some pictures or plans, and explain how they work?

4;
Some gunsmithes came up with mindblowing, brilliant unique mechanisms that amyn would never believe are truly authentic, old designs. I'm interested in these, and might want to use some in my design (or in a future gun I might build for I don't want to over-complicate my first one).

4 / B;
I'm especially interested in built in winding mechanisms that replace the separate winding key. I know such existed, but couldn't find any good pictures.

5;
How does one hold a Tschinke style rifle?! The butt is so sloped, and it has metal parts sticking out of it, I cannot imagine you can place that against your shoulder. Also the trigger is very far behind, I just cannot imagine how you hold that without forcefully bending your arm to some very uncomfortable position. Also, is the trigger guard that looks like it is shaped for fingers put outside of it actually functional that way, or it is just a form of ornament?

Example:

6;
Did they ever use browning/blueing back in the main wheellock period, or it came much later? I didn't see any with colored metal, but it doesn't mean it couldn't exist.

7;
I don't know where to buy a barrel (and the fact it needs to be shipped to Hungary also counts for I will have a relatively low budget). If I understand right, posting links to sellers would be against forum rules, so if you know any trustworthy barrel supplier, please send me a private message. The more options to chose from the better. I would prefer something slightly ornate rather than plain, and am thinking about octagonal to round.

7 / B;
Is it plausible for a relatively early wheellock to have rifled barrel, or were they all smooth bore?


Thanks in advance!

Honestly, I want to aim for a style I would call "plausible" - that is, rather than replicating existing pieces, making it unique, but in such a way that it could have existed back then, even if that particular combination was never made, but theoretically, could have been.

 

[Zonie]

Hopefully someone will be able to answer your questions.

We have another member that has built some wheel-locks. Perhaps he will respond?

As you may have gathered, most of the builders here are most familiar with American made firearms and although some wheel-locks were used in the early colonial times they were very rare.

I'm just guessing but the device located behind the wheel in the picture above looks like some sort of safety to me.

It is possible this could slide forward and engage a notch on the wheel when it was fully wound.

I would think that such a device would be very handy, especially on a pistol that might be carried in a belt or sash?

 

[Storm]

Well, this seemed to be the biggest muzzle loader forum out there, so I still have hopes. I saw some wheellock topics around from past.

I was guessing for safety as well, although wheellocks don't really need those - as long as the dog (as the piece holding the pyrite called instead of cock), is not in it's down position, so it doesn't touch the wheel, the gun should do nothing.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

I don't know a whole lot about Silesian birding rifles but I do know that this style of rifle was held with the side of the butt against the cheek and not tucked into the shoulder.

Assuming you were right handed; your left hand on the stock would apply pressure forward (pull it away) while your right hand on the grip would pull the stock back, thus steadying the barrel between your hands.

Japanese snapping matchlocks also have very small butt stocks and were operated on the same principle with the butt stock resting against the cheek.

 

[Storm]

Thanks!

That actually sounds uncomfortable, especially in regard of recoil.

The pulling however would answer why the "guard" is three finger shaped, to help pulling with the fingers - since you cannot really grab it with your arm so high and the wrist position resulting from that.

If I go with the carbine, I will rather opt for a shoulder rested butt. It was already present on matchlocks before wheellocks, so should work even on an earlier style wheellock.

 

[widget350]

1. The mechanisms behind the wheel are a safety. I'd have to search for a picture of the workings of them. If you look at Raszpla's posts and videos, and you'll see some of them (follow the link in 4b).

2. I'm pretty sure I've seen other mechanisms, but they're very rare. I have a feeling the normal main spring is the easiest approach.

3. See 1. The biggest safety, of course, is between your ears, but later models of wheellocks did sometimes feature safeties similar to the one shown.

4b. Look here: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/281463/

5. As already stated, this is a cheek stock. Wheellock guns utilized various styles of stock depending on the period.

6. Most barrels were left bright, but many were engraved (sometimes very intricately over the whole barrel), covered in false damascening, gilded, silver plated, and, I am currently looking at a pair of 1615 French pistols that were rust blued with gold highlighted beading and engraving (in a book).

7. Wheellocks used a number of different styles of barrel. Round, octagonal, mix of the two, swamped, hexagonal, revolving, etc. were all used. There were also a number of combination weapons, like building a wheellock into a halberd or boarding axe. Many, if not most, wheellock guns I've seen have had riled barrels, though smooth was certainly possible, depending on the style of the gun.

Wheellocks were the dawning of the modern firearm, and there was much experimentation. It's quite possible to combine concepts from various ones thinking you have an original combination, and still find out that some wacky gunsmith back then thought up that combo already. On the other hand, there are certain styles that tend to have features that were combined for their functional or aesthetic qualities, and I personally would choose to stick with a general style, even if I wanted to incorporate some elements of my own rather than trying to replicate a specific piece.

Check out the pre-flintlock forum. That's where most of the information on wheelies is on this site.

Keep us updated on the project.

 

[Storm]

Thank you very much for the detailed answers!


In the meanwhile I also continued my research, so I'm posting here a few things I found, both for myself to easily find later, and for anyone else interested.

Dave Person from this forum summed up many good thoughts about what a good wheellock should be like: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showpost.php?post/922224/

A nice exploded drawing of a typical lock (with inletted wheel, but that is a minor detail): http://members.iinet.net.au/~thinkfocus/images/RoyalArmouries-p10.jpg

Closeups of lock mechanism: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/260283/

Parts of lock: http://www.engerisser.de/Bewaffnung/weapons/Wheellock.html

Another wheellock project: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/206977/tp/1/


For mine, it all depends upon my financial situation and some things I have to take care of before I can setting up my workshop, until that all I can do is gathering info.

 

[davec2]

Storm,

Try searching on the American Longrifles (dot org) site for "wheel lock". (For some reason the link I tried to post here is blocked by this site ?????) There is a fellow by the handle of "Raszpla" from Europe that has made all the parts for a magnificent wheel lock firearm by hand. There are 15 pages of posts and pictures. Well worth the time to look through.

 

[necchi]

Yes as per the rules links to other Muzzle loading forums and auctions are blocked.
But why go over there when he's a member here;
Be sure to check all three pages of this thread and then just click the "User Options" near his name in the column on the left to find his other topics and posts;
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/244106/fromsearch/1/tp/1/

p.s. For what it's worth he was a member here for a year and a half before he went there and everything he posts over there is here also, he likes to share.

 

[Storm]

I found his threads in that other forum already, but I remembered linking to other forums is not allowed - with which I absolutely disagree... this is not a war, come on, you guys are all on the same side, why is this separation rather than being friends and working together?

I searched threads made by him here as well, I try to collect useful infos and photos from both places. I also found his email, hopefully it works, so I can write to him when I get to the point that I can start the actual work.

By the way...

During the last two nights I was dreaming with wheellocks... seriously! :shocked2:

 

[Storm]

So, after thinking about it, my first gun will be a pistol, and kept relatively simple and mostly within a given style. No need to over-commit myself with my very first work. Then if it turns out well enough to meet my expectations, I will go wild with the next one.