broken mainspring

[john p. madaus]

Hello all long time lurker. Now have problem. Went hunting today then shot my TVM rifle to unload it. Cleaned lock (large Siler) and barrel as usual,reassembled and cocked to check spark. I heard a noise and hammer moved freely. Removed lock and found broken mainspring.I am going to order mainspring from TOW. Any advice on installing or what might have caused this would be appreciated

 

[M. De Land]

Probably a good idea to order or make a second to keep in your kit.
A spring vice to install it would be another good item to keep in your possible bag although I prefer a small pair of needle nose vice grips and a leather strip as it has many more uses than a spring vice does.

 

[john p. madaus]

Thank you for your reply , picked up a mainspring vise somewhere along the line. Is there any thing i need to know as far as installation? Is this common enough that i should carry a spare and a vise afield with me?

 

[rdstrain49]

One thing you can do to help reduce the likelihood of spring failure, round all the sharp edges and polish out any visible file or machine marks. Just "break" the corners and edges so they are not sharp, you are not trying to reshape anything, use a very light touch. Do not overheat the spring if you use a power tool for polishing. I prefer to do it all by hand, no Dremel required.

 

[Zonie]

IMO, mainsprings breaking on Chambers Siler locks is pretty rare although as you found, it can happen.

Your mainspring vise is the way to go.

Personally, I don't like using Vise Grips of any kind on a mainspring.

They concentrate their pressure in one small area and because the upper leaf is shorter than the lower leaf, that pressure is not where it needs to be to install the spring.

The mainspring vise on the other hand distributes its force over the length of the leaf, flexing the end that will be nearest to the spur on the tumbler.
Just tighten it enough to get the spring into place without overdoing it and you shouldn't have any trouble.

 

[john p. madaus]

Thank you very much for your help.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I suspect Chambers will replace the spring, their locks are guaranteed for life.

 

[john p. madaus]

Yes i thought about contacting them but wanted to get gun fixed as quick as possible so ordered from TOW. Still wondering if i did something wrong to cause this. I occasionally dry fire to check for spark and for practice. My wife says i play with it to much.

 

[M. De Land]

The reason I recommend a small needle nose vice grip and leather strip is because it has so many other uses while in the field.
I have never broken or weakened a spring by using a vice grip and leather patch.
I make all my springs by hand both flat and coil and have some years of experience using the vice grip method. It works is what I can testify about it irrespective of others theories to the contrary.

 

[nhmoose]

Yes i thought about contacting them but wanted to get gun fixed as quick as possible so ordered from TOW. Still wondering if i did something wrong to cause this. I occasionally dry fire to check for spark and for practice. My wife says i play with it to much.

Dry firing a flintlock is when the frizzen is open or no flint or test piece of wood is in the jaws.

With a flint in the jaws and the frizzen closed it is a normal fire with or without prime.

 

[john p. madaus]

I guess i mispoke i meant triggering the lock with the frizzen closed. I sometimes do this with an old flint for practice or to test anew flint for spark.

 

[M. De Land]

I just use a hard wood flint and close the frizzen.
It wears nothing and gives one full function dry fire practice.
The object is the hold the front sight still on the bull through the whole cycle.
Actually this is impossible and what is really happening is the more one practices and trains the muscles, the sights come back into alignment on the bull at the end of the cycle and the gun fires. This is known as follow through.

 

[Artificer]

Yes i thought about contacting them but wanted to get gun fixed as quick as possible so ordered from TOW. Still wondering if i did something wrong to cause this. I occasionally dry fire to check for spark and for practice. My wife says i play with it to much.

Dry firing a flintlock is when the frizzen is open or no flint or test piece of wood is in the jaws.

With a flint in the jaws and the frizzen closed it is a normal fire with or without prime.

Have to politely disagree. The British and British American Army, since the mid 18th century, may not have called it "dry firing," but it was common practice to use a piece of wood in the flint jaws and close the "Steel" (Frizzen) to learn and practice firing without cartridges. This was meant to familiarize especially "Awkward Men" or Recruits and improve their marksmanship.

They often commented that the "Steel" or frizzen had to be shut or there would be damage to the "Cock" (Hammer) and Internal Bridle in the Lock, even when using a piece of wood in the "Cock" (Hammer). Cuthbertson's "System for the Complete Interior Management and Oeconomy of a Battalion of Infantry" is perhaps the best known period example, though there are others.

Gus

 

[Renegade Dan]

Draw the lock to half cock. Slip on the main spring vise. tighten down vise just enough to secure spring, then gently let down cock. (Do not pull back to full cock, this can damage the spring)
The mainspring can now be easily removed.

This is the main spring that I purchased years ago from the Track.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1038/1/TOOL-VISE-DX

 

[rdstrain49]

Gus;

I'm not arguing, just trying to get it right. I thought back when the hammer was called the "cock" that the frizzen was called the "hammer". Or am I all turned around?

 

[RAEDWALD]

I was always taught that the thing with the flint was the 'cock'. Following from it's resemblance to a pecking chicken and the source of the name snaphaunce. The bit the flint hits is the 'steel' as in a flint and steel fire starter. The first gun flints were made as flint fire starters.

In French the cock is 'chien' from the resemblance to a dogs head and the steel is a 'batterie'.

 

[LRB]

I have seen references represented as period, with the frizzen being called the hammer.

 

[john p. madaus]

Thank you all for your replies. Got the new spring and installed it. Now it seems i have a new problem, or is it a symptom of what caused the first spring to fail? Upon testing lock after installing new spring no matter what flint configuration i can come up with when i trip lock flint hangs up three quarter down frizzen without frizzen opening. This all seems like new symptoms since cleaning lock after hunting several days ago. The rifle fired flawlessly on tuesday after hunting.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Does your new lock spring feel as strong as the old one? I assume your flint is properly positioned.

Your new mainspring may be a bit wider than the old one. You may be tightening the lock too tightly. I suspect that the new mainspring is dragging in the lock mortise. Is your lock plate deeper in the mortise than the lock panel?

Put some lipstick or chalk or candle soot on the mainspring. Cycle the lock in the mortise. Check for signs of the marking on the wood in the mortise. Make a thin shim of cereal box cardboard. Does that improve the function?

 

[Artificer]

Gus;

I'm not arguing, just trying to get it right. I thought back when the hammer was called the "cock" that the frizzen was called the "hammer". Or am I all turned around?

You are very much correct that another period term for what we call the frizzen was called the "hammer" in the period. :thumbsup:

Both "Hammer" and "Steel" were used for a long period in the flintlock era at the same time, to describe what we call the frizzen. I normally use the period term "Steel" because it is less confusing to many modern day folks.

Gus