Bill Large Plains Rifle

[OldSmoky1967]

View attachment 184592

Very cool. Mine is the 8 groove. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Notchy Bob]

It sounds as if @rich pierce spoke with someone in the Large family, who confirmed that Bill had built a few complete rifles, although his "thing" was definitely barrels.

Regarding @William Sublette 's post (#58), the testimonial in the ad he reproduced was written by Don Coble, who was a top competitive shooter in the 1950's, I believe in the Ohio area. There was a feature article about Mr. Coble in the April, 1958 issue of Muzzle Blasts. A couple of his rifles were shown:


I don't know that either of these were built by Mr. Large, but they are severely plain, purpose-built match rifles.

While browsing through the back issues of Muzzle Blasts, I also came across this ad, showing a rifle for sale:


The ad says "Barrel and gun by Bill Large." This rifle looks a little more ornate, but certainly not gaudy.

In addition, there was an article in the March 1955 issue by John Barsotti, entitled "Riflemen and Their Rifles." Mr. Barsotti and a couple of his buddies went to visit Mr. Large one day in his shop. A couple of old-timers, including Bill Large's father, dropped in and contributed to the interview. Here is part of the first page of that article:



The man in the photo was named Frank Gannon, and the rifle he is holding is "Old Hanner" [Hanna], described as about 35 pounds, .62 caliber with a 55 inch octagon barrel 1-1/2" across the flats. The photo was believed to have been taken around 1900. Anyway, if you can read the fine print, the fourth paragraph in the first column mentions a rifle Bill Large built, which he named "Hanner Number 2," also .62 caliber (like its apparent namesake), but even bigger, weighing 60 pounds. I have seen a photo of Mr. Large standing, holding "Hanner Number Two" upright, and it is indeed a massive rifle. The image is in another issue of Muzzle Blasts, I think from some time in the early 1960's, but I was unable to locate it. If memory serves me, it was a halfstock, similar to the original "Old Hanner."

One final point that became apparent in this reading and researching is that years ago, people were simply calling these big guns "match rifles." I think it was understood that they would be shot "over a log" or "off a chunk," but it appears the term "chunk gun" may have originated much more recently, as with "smoothie," or "SMR". In any event, I don't recall seeing it in any of the materials I have read about traditional matches.

Just an observation, respectfully submitted.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Bullit]

The period challenge would be that this particular original lock did not have a fly and thus would not be suited for double set triggers. This modern version may have a fly.

Well, I've seen a horse fly, Ah, I've seen a dragon fly, I've seen a house fly, but I ain't never seen no lock fly. What a lock fly?

 

[rich pierce]

Well, I've seen a horse fly, Ah, I've seen a dragon fly, I've seen a house fly, but I ain't never seen no lock fly. What a lock fly?

A fly is a very small pivoting arm embedded in a little mortise in the tumbler. The spear pointed end of it extends to the edge of the tumbler and causes the sear to ride over the half-cock notch when the lock is tripped by either a set trigger or a very light pull on a simple trigger. Otherwise, the sear nose can stick in the half-cock notch when tripped.

With a simple trigger and a trigger pull weight of more than 3 or 4 pounds, the simple trigger keeps the sear arm up when firing, keeping the sear nose from catching in the half-cock notch.

 

[Bullit]

A fly is a very small pivoting arm embedded in a little mortise in the tumbler. The spear pointed end of it extends to the edge of the tumbler and causes the sear to ride over the half-cock notch when the lock is tripped by either a set trigger or a very light pull on a simple trigger. Otherwise, the sear nose can stick in the half-cock notch when tripped.

With a simple trigger and a trigger pull weight of more than 3 or 4 pounds, the simple trigger keeps the sear arm up when firing, keeping the sear nose from catching in the half-cock notch.

I'm trying to picture this but I'm not having a very good time of it. Do you have any pics?

 

[Notchy Bob]

I'm trying to picture this but I'm not having a very good time of it. Do you have any pics?

If you have a muzzle-loading rifle with double-set triggers, built any time from the late 1960's to the present, you can remove the lock and take a look. Cock it and de-cock it a couple of times, observing how the sear nose engages the notches in the tumbler. The fly is the tiny little part that swings over the half-cock notch. It allows the sear nose to lift into the half-cock position when the hammer is being pulled back, but it won't let the sear nose move into the half-cock notch when the hammer is going down.

Manipulating an actual lock is the best way to understand how it works.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[rich pierce]

I'm trying to picture this but I'm not having a very good time of it. Do you have any pics?

Search the inter webs.

 

[Notchy Bob]

What's the word, @BigSkyRambler ? Have you gotten your hands on that rifle yet? I, along with other members of the "peanut gallery," hope to see more pictures and read a complete appraisal of this interesting gun.

Thanks!

Notchy Bob

 

[Fastleo]

Hello, I have found we bid against each other for the same items, occasionally. Great purchase!

We’re do you see these guns for sale?

 

[OldSmoky1967]

We’re do you see these guns for sale?

Different online auction houses. That was Morphy Auction House in PA.

 

[Rob M.]

Congratulations. Looks like an awesome rifle with a Large barrel. And the lock is an interesting addition.

I remember during the early to mid 1970's Bill was the only true "custom" barrel maker. I seem to recall there was a year's wait even back then. The only commercial barrels then were from Numrich and Douglas. With Dixie coming a bit latter with their 6 groove barrels from Japan. There were only a couple of custom lock/trigger makers then. Bob Roller's locks and triggers were much sought after for the Hawken rifle craze during the 1970's. The name of the other lock maker escapes me for the moment.

Rick

The other lock.maker could have been Eddie Myers , He was making " Deer Creek " stamped perc. locks and double set triggers at that time . He was out of Madison County Ohio , he lived on the bank of Deer Creek . ....this was before Deer Creek of Indiana ....great maker .. . dont know if thats who you were thinking of or not but just tossing that info out there .....

 

[Rob M.]

This is an interesting plains Rifle with a Bill Large barrel. I do not have in hand just yet. Has a 33" .54 caliber barrel. What I think is cleaver is the builder used a repurposed Whitney US musket lock dated 1848. What I consider to be a good representation of a frrontier lock replacement. Thoughts?View attachment 183351View attachment 183352View attachment 183353

Beautiful rifle ! Ya lucky guy ! Back in the early 90s I worked at a machine shop for Dick Wheeler and his wife Janice Large Wheeler , daughter of Bill Large . I was just starting my building of flintlock trade guns at the time but had heard of Bill Large ,naturally , and could not believe that I had just been hired by his daughter and her family . Also working there was Gary Miller , no relation to me , also a Miller , but he was an in law to the Wheelers and he actually worked with Bill Large making barrels for awhile ....until one of the J sisters was not happy about it , wanted her son , family , to be the apprentice .... Well , poor Gary got pushed aside and the grandson put in ....he did ok at first but he liked beer and grass more than barrel making so.it didnt last long after Bill.passed on . Any who.....Janice was always talking about " Daddy " after she found out I was a Muzzleloader builder and enthusiast . She let me borrow two rifles , one he built completely , half stock perc. , and a Civil.War rifled musket Bill replaced the barrel with one he made . Was very cool !! I have pics of them somewhere but who knows where ! LOL !

 

[OldSmoky1967]

Beautiful rifle ! Ya lucky guy ! Back in the early 90s I worked at a machine shop for Dick Wheeler and his wife Janice Large Wheeler , daughter of Bill Large . I was just starting my building of flintlock trade guns at the time but had heard of Bill Large ,naturally , and could not believe that I had just been hired by his daughter and her family . Also working there was Gary Miller , no relation to me , also a Miller , but he was an in law to the Wheelers and he actually worked with Bill Large making barrels for awhile ....until one of the J sisters was not happy about it , wanted her son , family , to be the apprentice .... Well , poor Gary got pushed aside and the grandson put in ....he did ok at first but he liked beer and grass more than barrel making so.it didnt last long after Bill.passed on . Any who.....Janice was always talking about " Daddy " after she found out I was a Muzzleloader builder and enthusiast . She let me borrow two rifles , one he built completely , half stock perc. , and a Civil.War rifled musket Bill replaced the barrel with one he made . Was very cool !! I have pics of them somewhere but who knows where ! LOL !

I would be very interested in seeing those if you can find the pictures.

 

[Rob M.]

I would be very interested in seeing those if you can find the pictures.

I'm still searching bud . I thought for sure it was in all my F.B. pics but I looked last night , couldnt find em . It was cool pics too .Bill Large guns on the pot h of an original log cabin I was living in ....I'll keep looking.

 

[springfield art]

This is an interesting plains Rifle with a Bill Large barrel. I do not have in hand just yet. Has a 33" .54 caliber barrel. What I think is cleaver is the builder used a repurposed Whitney US musket lock dated 1848. What I consider to be a good representation of a frrontier lock replacement. Thoughts?View attachment 183351View attachment 183352View attachment 183353

Yikes! Really nice!