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Best source for dueling pistols?

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The idea of dueling was essentially you didn't aim. It was supposed to be a quick, non-deliberate snap shot with little thought or intent of accuracy put in. Rifling was not acceptable in England, and generally America, but France allowed it. As did the areas that followed the French pattern, like Louisiana, but then again the sword was preferred over the pistol in those countries far into the percussion period.

That said, tricks like heavy barrels to improve pointability, secret or shallow rifling, saw handles, psuedo sights, etc., were all produced and probably used. Dueling with pistols may have been an acceptable practice, but it was never a legal one. Thus a slow deliberate aim with a rifled pistol would have left a man open to murder charges that a snap shot from a smoothbore may not have. My understanding is that powder charges were also juggled to enhance or reduce the lethality of the encounter depending on the nature of the insult being settled, these matters being decided by the seconds between themselves without the principles knowledge. As was said before, given the short distances (10 30" paces was not uncommon, or 25'), rifled or smoothbore may have made little difference in hitting a man sized target, but had a large impact on the subsequent legal ramifications.

As was said before, a dueling pistol is one made to duel with. My favorite example is a duel with deringers over a dinner table, using cork bullets in place of lead. Not your typical duelers, but authentic all the same.

Joel

:hmm: Don't think Andrew Jackson would agree. He was shot twice in duels, and killed people. Dueling was used to settle many heated disputes, and defend honor. There are many folks pushing up daisies that were killed in duels. The duel stood out as the final answer to a dispute, and the fastest way to settle it!

For the most part it was kill or be killed. Dueling was outlawed, but was still practiced in France in the 60's.
They did however wear body armour, so nobody would get killed in the process.

Mule

Check out Dueling[url] Pistols.com[/url]
http://duellingpistols.com/
 
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If I remember correctly, Jackson was roundly criticized at the time for wearing a "loose" coat during one duel that hid the outline of his body, causing his opponent to mostly miss and just hit his ribs. Although I doubt anyone criticized him to his face.

I don't disagree on the lethality of the duel, or the dueling pistol. England, however, was somewhat stricter in regards to the laws against dueling than the states, and although they were more often observed in the breach than in the enforcement, staying within the codes was the probably best insurance against a successful prosecution. (Along with social status, and a quick vacation across the channel). Remember, Burr killed Hamilton not in NY, where they both lived and the challenge was issued, but in NJ where the laws were looser.

This is not to dispute the deadliness of the true dueling pistol, but contributes in my mind to their appeal. They had to be fast, deadly, and accurate, to be wielded by someone with skill, practice, and cool deliberation, yet to all outward appearances seem to be none of the above. Practicing was often prohibited by the code, especially immediately before the duel, although "target" shooting was a recognized sport. Rifling was not allowed, although "secret" rifling was common. And deliberate aimed shots were discouraged, yet a well made dueler is probably one of the best instinctive pointing instruments ever designed for shooting another man at close range. Heavy barrels, saw handles, checkering, faster roller locks, platinum linings, and the rest were all refinements that minimized chance and created an arm that probably shot as close to where it was pointed as any ever devised with a consistency that left little to be desired.

And last, men fought to uphold their honour and standing in society. One could win a duel and still loose that standing and reputation, even if legally protected, if he was thouyght to have contradicted the spirit of the code. Social ostracism, and social standing, carried far more weight in the close-knit societies of gentleman in past days than it does today.

I don't disagree with your comments, I just find it fascinating such a graceful instrument was devised within such a complez social code.
 
Hey Tac:

Which Moore flinters are you talking about? I would like to look at them.

Also thanks to Erzulis boat for your thoughts on dueling pistols and dueling. I assure you, you could not get long winded enough for me on the subject.

I also agree with Mule Brain on his thoughts about Andy Jackson, et. al. Also appreciate his directing me to the dueling web site. A fun read but those prices for original cased pairs were more frightening than the thought of participating in a real duel...which is what I would have to do if I spent that much money.

(My better half can be REAL testy.)
Rocky Point Jack
 
Maybe there is a way to bring dueling back! :haha: We could formulate low grain powder charges, that would only sting at 15 paces :thumbsup:

Here is a couple shots of the great weapons fanatic Lucian Carey trying out dueling in france. They use wax bullets for practice, and suit up for the real fun!

duel1.jpg


duel.jpg


These came from my library, and I can copy the article if anyone wants it PM me!
 
Whats up with the handgaurds on the guns? I mean, I understand the mask but whats up with that? :huh:
 
Sometimes a cased set of pistols is just that, a cased set. The pair was not intended for duelling. Sometimes an advertised set of "duelling pistols" are not duellers.
exactly!
Realistically, after about 1850 most cased sets of pistols were only used for target practice or stored in the desk drawer "just in case" the recipient got challenged. They were used as a gift, and as a status symbol, and rarely for duels.
I recommend "a History of Shooting" by Jaroslav Lugs for more info on different types of duels,duelling history etc. and there are a lot of books with great photos of duellers in them around.
I am still kicking myself over not buying a SINGLE cased pistol when i was in Spain 12 years back - mint condition (definitely not a repro) and only $500! :(
 
Whats up with the handgaurds on the guns? I mean, I understand the mask but whats up with that? :huh:

Just a guess on my part, but I would bet even wax bullets would be easily capable of breaking your fingers or tearing the meat off of your finger bones. :shocking: :shocking:

We older people aren't as invincible as we used to be when we were young. :) :cry: :cry:
 
Mule brain, those pistols were practice pistols, meant for wax bullets. :thumbsup: Also, doubt that thin little bit of iron will stop a .45 cal going 700FPS. :sorry:
 
Guys, What is the cheapest price you've ever seen a boxed set of pistols go for? (the real deal, antiques) The cheapest I saw were $2300.
 
Thanks to all who replied. I've checked out every lead and have determined that no one out there makes a replica like I want.

My criteria include: flintlock, smoothbore, front sight only, barrel no longer than 9 inches.

Several makers come close but if I'm going to spend over $350 per copy they are going to have to be exactly what I want. Guess the thing to do is keep an eye out at all the gun shows. You never know what you might find.

Thanks again.
Rocky Point Jack :thanks:
 
Hmmmmmmm. $350 each is not going to get you much of a dueller, IMO. The Hege Mantons work out at just under $3500 a boxed pair, and they are still only replicas.

tac :grey:
 
You are correct, sir. It isn't going to happen. Too little interest in these types of pistols.

Maybe someday I will have the cash to commission a pair.

Rocky Point Jack
 
Pretty good deal for a set


[url] http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7082782[/url]
 
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