Barrel residue

[rmay]

I'm trying to find out what's causing brown residue to accumulate in the barrel of my Lyman .54 Trade Rifle after I clean it. I'm still kinda new at muzzleloading, so I don't really have a cleaning routine yet but basically what I do is take the barrel off, remove the nipple, run some solvent down the barrel and start swabbing with wet patches till they're clean. Then I run clean dry patches down the barrel till they're clean and dry. I put it back together and run some bore butter down the barrel. The last couiple of times I've done this, I've gone back after a few days and run a clean patch down the barrel and it's come out with some rusty brown-looking stuff on it. It looks like rust to me, but I don't know what's causing it if I have clean dry patches after cleaning. Does bore butter turn color with age? If it is rust, what could be causing it? I store my gun in its case in a closet in the basement with a de-humidifier in it.
I appreciate any help you can give me.

Russ52

 

[sturgeon]

Russ,

I've had this problem too. I think it has to do with even though we think the barrel is dry, there is still a little moisture that gets trapped under the bore butter. This causes the metal to rust. I solved my 'rusting' by wiping with an alcohol soaked patch after cleaning and drying. I then wipe with a dry patch and wait about 10 min for the alcohol(90% isoproply)to evaporate before putting the BB on. My rifle has been sitting in my gun cabinet for 5 months with no rust. I just checked it this last weekend and the test patch came out clean as a whistle!

Tim :RO:

 

[George Wyman]

Russ52
Are you getting down into the patent breech? This may be where the stuff is accumulating when you swab the barrel. I clean mine with a 9mm jag and brush. Or, flushing/pumping with hot soapy water cleans it out nicely also. Next time you clean, after you are done, run a patch into the patent breech and see if there is fouling left in there.

 

[Zoobear]

Try leaving it out of the case.

 

[roundball]

I've had this problem too. I think it has to do with even though we think the barrel is dry, there is still a little moisture that gets trapped under the bore butter.

Ditto...also remember, when using a lube like bore butter it doesn't displace anything, and doesn't 'run/migrate' around like a liquid oil might...basically where ever bore butter touches is where it stays...and if the entire bore's surface area is not coated (insulated) from air contact, it will begin a slow rust from the normal humidity in the air.

I take extra lube out of a tube and smear it on a lube patch 2-3 times to ensure I've got every square inch of the bore heavily plastered with it...then I check & relube it a day or so later to be sure I didn't miss anything before I put it in a case or anything
:m2c:

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings All,

Sturgeon and Patchknife are on the right track about moisture residue creating after rust. The cleaning solvent will also creep into the barrel breech threads and then slowly evaporate out creating a rusting problem, particularly so, if the flush method of cleaning is used (my preferred method of cleaning).

Patchknife's infromation about cleaning the patten breech is very good. This is an area that is totally overlooked by most BP shooters.

After the cleanup, spray WD-40 (or any other moisture displacement solvent) down the bore and let it set awhile to drive out any remaining trapped moisture.

Mop out the WD-40 and wipe the bore with a good rust preventative. A personal favorite is RIG Gun Grease, but there are others. Do not neglect to check the bore every few days with a greasy patch to see if the rusting problem has been solved.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

 

[Rat]

I agree your solvent cleaning should be followed with something other than bore-butter. As mentioned it does not displace moisture...not really a preservative or rust preventative.

After I get my barrel(s) clean with Hoppe's #9+, I then run a couple of patches of regular #9 through it, then some Kroil (penetrating oil), dry patch and then swab the bore with some good gun oil...or a 50/50 mixture of kroil/oil. WD40 is good, but it tends to evaporate off, so I'd follow WD with a swabbing of gun oil also.

Then before you go to the range, or load up to hunt you can clean the gun with dry patches and some alcohol patches and it will be ready again for the bore-butter.

I have had NO problem using both petroleum products, and the Wonder/bore-butter type lubes, together. As long as you clean the barrel well before shooting/hunting. If not, it will be clean and dry after the first shot. Still my first shot hits very close to the POI of the ones fired from a fouled barrel. Alcohol will certainly clean any traces of oil out of the bore.

Indeed run an oily patch down the bore the day after cleaning. Save the bore butter for patch lube.

Good luck.

Rat

 

[Pittsburghunter]

I don't clean with water anymore and that seams to have helped. When I did I got it so hot I could not hold the barrel in my bare hands used a worm to get out the areas my jag won't get to and then put the bore butter in while the barrel was hot and dry. This may sound strange but on sunny low humid days I like to put my guns in the sun for a while or at least the barrels.

 

[Darkhorse]

I think that brown stuff your talking about is the so-called "Seasoning" effect from bore butter. I never got that residue in the old Crisco days, but now that I use bore butter that brown rusty looking stuff is turning up in every rifle I "butter".
At first it puzzled me also, I would clean until the soapy water was running clean, then run a dry patch down and it would come up rusty looking. So I'd do it again with the same effect. I couldn't figger how the barrel had rusted so bad in just a few minutes, especially when I couldn't see any rust even with a bore light.
I also knew it didn't used to happen, thats how I tied it to the bore butter.
Now I clean like usual, hot water or cold, your choice (only Rat uses Hoppes) until the barrel is clean, it only actually takes a very little time. Then I turn the barrel upside down and let it drain while I clean the lock. After a few minutes I saturate a patch with WD-40 and run it down the barrel, this serves not only to displace any moisture but also helps clean out the brown stuff. Then a couple of dry patches, followed by the oily one.
I no longer worry about the rusty looking brown stuff because I know its not rust.
However, if I forgot to clean my rifle and left it for a week or so it WILL be rust. Then I would worry.
Another thing, the neglected rusty barrels I've seen showed the corrosion all the way out to the bore and it was usually visible to the eye.
So I wouldn't worry about it. Just keep shooting, cleaning and oiling.

 

[roundball]

I think that brown stuff your talking about is the so-called "Seasoning" effect from bore butter.

FWIW, I'm a poster child for Natural Lube 1000, but I never get any coloration on patches like that...shoot and clean one flintlock or another almost every Saturday year round.

Barrel in 5 gallon bucket of steaming hot water for 15 mins
Then pump flush a couple patches
Run a couple dozen strokes with a bronze bore brush
Then pump flush another patch
Rinse in hot clean water
Patch dry the bore immediately to prevent 'flash rust'
Let residual heat bone dry the barrel for 5 minutes
Heavily, heavily paste the bore with Natural Lube 1000

15+ years...so far so good

 

[arcticap]

I think there is a possibility that what you are observing might not have as much to do with moisture (since you are using solvent) as it might have to do with residual powder that's not getting fully removed from the barrel during the cleaning process. If using solvents, one has to use relatively tight patches and a lot of cleaning rod strokes & elbow grease, particularly if shooting with Pyrodex! Even if you remove 98% of the fouling, the 2% that's left in the rifling grooves when combined with the bore butter can still create some brown oxidation I believe. I would suggest that you go back to your gun within a short time after cleaning and clean some more with tighter patches. The bore butter that you already applied will have helped to further soften the 2% residue and make it even easier to remove the 2nd time around. Just in case you lose any tight patches in the bore, have a patch puller handy with those 2 little hooks so you don't have to shoot the patches out (or a CO2 device, etc...). I personally use a .41 jag with homemade patches folded over enough to obtain a tight fit for all of my guns, unless very small caliber. :m2c:

 

[lockjaw]

I would throw away the solvent and follow Roundball's instructions.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Ditto.

I shave a little Ivory Soap or add a dollop of Murphy's Oil Soap. Helps the water cut through the fouling (which has oils and waxes mixed in from the lube).

After the barrel sits a few minutes nose down to drain I run an alcohol patch, a Rem-Oil patch, and lately I use Moose Snot instead of the Natural Lube 1000 +.

I also wipe the bore with a damp moose milk patch immediately after the last shot (or at least a spit patch). Makes clean up an hour later or whenever much easier. Get that fouling out when it's still soft.

 

[Zonie]

First off, this post really belongs in the Shooting Accessories Forum, but I'll let it ride for a while.

Second, I know a lot of you are relatively new, so I'll dig up the past.

About a year ago Stumpkiller was developing his Moose Milk stuff. To do this, he ran a number of tests to determine what worked best to stop rust.
If you haven't read some of these posts, use the search feature and put in "LUBE WAR", enter :Stumpkiller: in the next box and set the "Way Back" machine dates to Before 8 MONTHS ago.

As a preview of the discussion, follow this Quick Link
LUBE WAR 1

There were several other Lube War posts, all of them being very interesting to folks who might want to keep rust away.

 

[jimbo15563]

Rat's not the only one using Hoppe's #9. I like to saturate a brass bore brush with it and do a thorough scrubbing. I follow that with some TC Bore cleaner and patches to remove the "gunk" and then flush it with hot water and dish detergent followed by clean hot water. I run a dry patch, then a 90% isopropyl patch, then a dry patch, and then blow-dry hot air down the barrel for a minute or two. Afterwards I slime it up with lots of bore butter and put it away. My Renegade flinter is 20+ years old and the bore looks just like it did when it came out of the box.

I'm a Thompson fan and believe they put the same time and effort into developing their cleaning and lubing products that they put into their rifles. Other than the Hoppes, I'm non-petroleum.

I particularly stay away from WD-40 and other products with penetrating properties. If you end up with a little bit in the wrong place that gets into a primer, you could have a misfire. Mr. Murphy says that will happen when you have a 10-point buck in your sights.

Jimbo

 

[sturgeon]

I think one point that hasn't been stressed enough is that most people, IMO, that nay say BB as a rust preventative don't use enough of it when they coat the barrel. I have used BB to coat my bore from the start (5yrs ago). When just starting I just used a little, and pulled rust after a week in storage. Someone on this list told me to use more than I thought I needed to an low and behold the rust stopped. I finally realized that BB isn't like oil (I know..well, duh?!). Oil spreads and flows around, BB doesn't unless melted. Where you rub the BB is where it stays. In the begining, I wasn't using enough on my last wiping patches to coat the breech area well. Since I have changed to using 'Holy manure' amounts and adding the alcohol swab, my rusting problems have been rectified.

Tim :results: