Barrel brown or blue, which is safer?

[pab1]

I have been considering building a GPR kit. What is the safest way to finish a barrel in an apartment with a child? I have heard that some bluing solutions can be dangerous. Is there a method that is completely safe around children?

I prefer the look of a browned barrel. Is either finish more durable?

 

[captaincaveman]

I am no expert and have never done it myself, but I seem to remember hearing that you can brown metal with regular yellow mustard. Hopefully somebody a little smarter than me will chime in on this one

Josh

 

[grey8833]

Cold Brown from Laural Mountain Forge is very safe. All you need is humidity after you apply it. Hot shower and a closed door should do that. No heating, no fumes - got to be patient though. Can take time to brown up - depends on how humid you keep the barrel (short of letting water bead up on it - which can cause streaks).

 

[BrownBear]

I'm in the final throes of building a GPR, and based upon all my past experiences with cold bluing, I'm anxious to start the browning process today.

Ther'e so much fiddling and fussing with temperatures, degreasing and appication techniques with cold blue that it's a real PITA sometimes to avoid a mottled result. When I used to do hot blueing, it really fixed my tastes on results and they're hard to match with cold blue.

But open your mind a bit on what you are looking for, and there are some interesting possibilities with cold blue. This thread here at MLF outlines and illustrates a processing for producing a "gray" instead of a blue. It looks darn good in an antique sort of way, and sounds really easy, too. I already have my heart set on browning this one, but that satin gray looks so good I'm probably going to have to build another just to try it.

 

[jtmattison]

I browned mine with Laurel Mountain Forge brown solution. It was easy, clean, and I'd say very safe to do in an apartment. You just need a place for the barrel to hang or prop that is out of the way. I clamped a dowel in my vice and slipped the muzzle onto it to hold it parallel to the table. Worked great and made no mess.

HD

 

[barebackjack]

My first try at browning was in the garage...not so good, had to take it back to bare metal and start over. Combination of no humidity and my not knowing what I was doing.

The second time was in my apartments bathroom. Used LMF solution. I dont think the cold solutions are as dangerous as something like BC plum brown which reguires heat and gives off fumes. I wouldnt use BC in the house.

I started all my metal at about 2 pm on a saturday, applied one coat, ran the shower on HOT HOT HOT for five minutes with door closed. Put another coat on about 9 pm, ran shower again, let it sit over night, and had it carded and neutralized by noon the next day. Turned out pretty good I think.

I wouldnt worry about it. Just dont let the kiddies go fingering it or youll leave fingerprints. (Mine has a nice mark left from the grips of the kitchen gloves I wore on the bottom flat, thank god it wasnt the top flat).

 

[Stophel]

Any number of things can be used to brown with (it is just rust, after all). If safety is the concern, I'd try the mustard. I can brown a barrel just by handling it!

Cold blues all rely on copper sulphate as the main ingredient, which is not a good thing to ingest. The ONLY cold blue I would recommend is Brownell's Oxpho Blue. All others I have tried might get you a better color (initially) than OxphoBlue, but I had a huge problem with after-rust with all of them. 44-40 is the worst.

 

[barebackjack]

How do you go about with the mustard?

Im assuming you use plain old yellow mustard, it doesnt have to be the expensive honey dijon does it?

 

[Goldhunter]

I've used mustard on knives. Just smear it on thin, let it dry. An hour or so later, rinse it off. If it's not what you want, smear on more and repeat. Warning, if you dab it on so you have some spots that are think with mustard and some that are thin, your metal will come out with a mottled/damascus type finish.

The reason you spread on thin, if I understand it correctly, is that you need the air to react with the vinegar in the mustard to get the oxidation going. If the mustard is think, the air can't get to the metal. Or is it in reverse this happens? :hmm: I can't remember. Anyway, try it on a cheap carbon kitchen knife you have laying around to experiment (if it has a bright surface). Anyway it gives metal a gre finish.

I think ketchup will also work.

 

[crockett]

Some of these guys are experts. For your first try- Laurel Mountain Forge- no toxics. The B-C browning has mercury. Laurel Mountain Forge is a fool proof finish- you can leave it as is for a historic look or you can get a smooth shiney brown by adding a drop of linseed oil AFTER the browning job.

 

[LRB]

Dave, I may be mistaken, but I am pretty sure that B-C has not contained mercury for many years. In the seventies, it did, and was a fine browning solution. It was hard to beat. You threw the directions away, and heated the steel. Then coated it. Then added another coat when it was warm, then applied heat. 2 or 3 more coats and the finish was a really nice, even, plum brown. It does not work that way now. The original formula would leave tiny balls of mercury behind as you appied it. It does not do that anymore. LMF brown is the best way to go. Mustard belongs on hotdogs. I am constantly amazed at the number of people, too cheap to just go buy a proven product that ain't gunna break anyones' bank, that acually produces the results that they are asking for.

 

[Runner]

It has nothing to do with cheap! It has to do with the DOITYOURSELF gene that a lot of us have!

 

[Zonie]

Almost all of the cold blueing materials contain Selenium which could be dangerous if a young person ate it.

The Birchwood Casey Plum Brown is definitely not for use indoors and has this warning:
"CONTAINS NITRIC ACID, SODIUM NITRAT AND POTASSIUM CHLORATE. AVOID CONTACT WITH EYES OR MUCOUS MEMBRANES AND PROLONGED CONTACT WITH SKIN..."
Probably not the thing to have around children.

The Laurel Mountain browning solution does not have any warnings on it but I would think children probably shouldn't play with it.

zonie

 

[AeroncaTAL]

Ok,
Here's a picture of my CVA Kentucky I recently finished.

I wanted to try something different than the French Gray on my GPR. I browned the metal with Dixie Browing Solution. It was done in my garage, hanging up on a wire. I do live in the Pacific Northwest and humidity is high, though not as high as in other parts of the country. It was easy to apply, and I put 4 applications of the browing. It took about 2 applications before the rusting really started. I lightly carded with denim after the 2nd application. After I had the 4 applications, the rust was a nice chocolate brown, but still a bit uneven on the top of the barrel (heavy hand with the carding). I finished it with one light application of Perma Blue, which took care of the uneveness. I would certainly recommend the Dixie browing, easy to do and I didn't have to use a sweat box.
Scott

 

[dlocke]

All hail the man with the poison hands. I've tried that but it has never really taken.
DJL

 

[FASTFRED]

In Colorado I used to try and rust brown barrels and the other parts without a humidity box, but the results were always poor...Built a wood box four feet long and 1 foot square lined with plastic and has a light bulb inside for heat...Once you get the feel of how much heat/humidity and what stages to card off and reapply the browning solution it works great...

Usually takes me four to 5 days to get the light sandblasted uniform finish I am looking for...If you don't card often enought you end up with a real flakey/pitted finish that is often not very pretty or durable...A good brown job wears like iron in my opinion, even on the edges of octagon barrels... :winking: ...The Best...The Lizard...

 

[renovato]

Rust bluing and rust browning are very similar in technique. If you prefer the blued look, rust bluing only requires the extra step of boiling the metal after each carding. I've used Mark Lee express blue to rust blue several guns and the results were great. I use Laurel Mountain Forge solution for browning and it has always been easy and predictable also. I use a spare closet as a rusting cabinet, using a small humidifier and heater.

As for durability, both rust finishes are top of the line. Even more durable than factory hot caustic bluing.

As far as safety goes, the solutions themselves are acidic. The bottle would need to be kept out of reach. Once it's on the metal, it's pretty harmless though.

If you decide to go with cold bluing, try Wheeler Engineering's Premium Gun Blue. It looks a lot better than Oxphoblue and is more durable too.

 

[pab1]

Thanks everybody! That's a lot of experience and good information! It sound like the LMF solution is the way to go.

THELIZARD, I will build a box too. I was wondering if it was a little too dry here to do without one.

 

[FASTFRED]

If you use the lined box method, do NOT use too much humidity with it as it doesn't lose much during the process...A damp small towel is all you'll need in my experience and don't keep wetting down every day...If too much humidity is used, you'll get black oily type spects/smuges on the parts and have to take the whole works back to bare metal and start over...Less is better, may take longer, but you get a finer finish in the end...Complete degreasing in also necessary or you'll be starting over again...Card often and pretty heavy and you'll get a fine finish...Wear latex gloves or your shin will go to hell and you'll contaminate the surface...
:winking:...The Best...The Lizard...

 

[crockett]

Sorry about the mercury- what can I say- I'm a dinosaur. In any event on the damp box, there are plans for ones that take a lot of time to build. I just kept an eye out for scrap lumber from construction sites, etc and in a day or two had enough for free. I want to do 42-44" barrels so mine is about 45" high and 12" deep by say 12" wide. I put a couple of small shelves in the back to hold small parts and in the front I have a cross dowel that is a "towel rack" I just scew on the door to keep it shut and so far it works fine. I have a small "Mousehole" in the bottom of the"door" or removable front panel (large enough for an electrical cord)and I put a small lamp in the box to generate some heat. The towel is wet but not soaking wet and underneath the towel I put a pie plate to catch any dripping water. I then put a large plastic leaf bag over the whole affair.
On the L-M-F you card with a damp terry cloth rag. If you use steel wool, etc you'll probably take off too much rust. You just want to remove any loose rust, not the finish you are trying to build up. It also is wise to wash the barrel very well prior to the job and wear plastic gloves- the instructions say you don't have to and I've done small parts bare handed but on a long barrel I would take very precaution.
Finally, you'll have a strong inclination to wipe on a good amount of solution- DON"T DO IT! Just a quick wipe. If you think you missed a spot FORGET IT and cover that on the next round.
I think you said you were in an apartment. You can use the box for storage between jobs.