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bad barrel?

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Nightwind

40 Cal.
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
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After four months, I finally received a customer's barrel that I'm not sure if I should keep it or send it back. First off, the barrel was ordered with breech plug installed and dovetailed for the front and rear sights. The bore has circular rings all the ways down on the face of the lands, and are most severe about one to three inches from each end. They seem deep enough to actually have shadows when looking through the bore at a light. I removed the breech plug to fit the barrel to the stock and noticed a lack of rub marks on the face of it. So I applied soot to the face and re-installed the plug to the match mark. removed the plug and found the soot untouched. So I guess that means the plug isn't properly shouldered. With the barrel being dovetailed, I don't think I can go another revolution to shoulder the plug?

Any help or suggestions would be very appreciated. I'm "supposed" to have this rifle done in time for the customers birthday on Feb. 25th!!!
 
I suppose you have three options.

1. Call the manufacturer and complain and see what the turn around time is for a replacement but you will need to be prepared to get the barrel back late and explain to the "owner" why you would not accept substandard components. He will be disappointed but he will understand. Not much you can do without a barrel.

2. You will have to trim both the rear face of the barrel as well as the face of the plug to ensure they both mate up correctly and have the dovetails one the corect sides. Not fun but it should help you with your delivery time.

3. Call around frantically to see if any barrel dealer has the same profile barrel sitting in inventory. Try Buckeye barrels, Tip Curtis, and Vern Davis.

Personnally I would try option 3 first, then option 2 in order to try and get the rifle done on time. I would seek recompence with the manufacturer on Option 1 at a later time.

Good luck
 
Although some may consider it "a fix", another option is to determine exactly how much clearance there is between the shoulder of the bore and the end of the breech plug.

If it is very small, you may have to remove some of the breech plugs face to make this work, but here is the thought:

Make a steel or brass spacer which fits into the threaded area and rests on the shoulder.
The thickness of this spacer will be exactly the distance from the barrel shoulder to the face of the breech plug plus maybe .001 so that when the breech plug is fully tightened it will crush this spacer into the barrel shoulder.

If the washer is steel, you can polish the face of it to a mirror finish so a bore light when shown down the bore will reflect off of it. This is a nice feature to have.

If the spacer is brass, you might want to drill out the center making a washer with the inside diameter the same as the bore. That way, the cleaning patches won't get stuck or snagged when they hit the actual breech plug face.

The steel method will seal the bore from the breech plug threads as well as a solid breech plug could. The brass method will actually become a metallic gasket which will seal better than any steel spacer can.

I would recommend the minimum thickness of the spacer/washer to be .015 but that is only because it is easier to work with than thinner pieces.

Zonie
 
With Zonie's "washer" and some bore lapping with a cast lead slug, you might be able to save it.[on time]

Other wise call the maker and arrange to send it back. :(
 
Sounds like to me it is one of the "TOP" bbl. makers, I experienced the same with one from him. If it is the same maker, rots of ruck getting anything done from him.
 
On the bad bbl I got, I silver soldiered a dime onto the face of the breech plug and then faced it down, until all came together as to the bolster/bbl and breech plug face/bore shoulder mate up.
 
Does youse want me an da boys to talk to him, boss? :youcrazy:

Seriously, send it back and try to get a replacement. I almost forgot, read'em the riot act!
 
In my limited experience it is a very rare thing to have a barrel that comes breeched actually rub the face of the breechplug against the bore shoulder. I am getting to where I'd prefer to do it myself. I've discovered this when drilling for a touchhole liner, which is later along than when you found out. If I want to keep the "high end barrel maker" mark on the bottom, I have no choice but to go a full turn- and lose a thread in the process. I do not think of it so much as a safety issue right away as a place where corrosion can fester.
 
Here is my 2 cents worth... Can you "make it work", I'm sure you probably can, BUT:

If I am your customer, and I am paying good money for a new custom rifle with particular specifications, I wouldn't want any jury rigged barrel.

You aren't doing yourself any favors by sprucing up a sub-quality barrel. Your name will be associated with the rifle long after everyone forgets it was the barrel maker's fault that the barrel was messed up.

In addition, you aren't doing anyone else any favors but dealing with an obvious problem that should never have gone out the door. They must have Ray Charles' ghost doing QC inspection. The maker will only fix these problem when enough people demand repairs, money back, etc. If they don't shape up, they will go out of business, which may not be bad if this is typical. I have no idea who they are, but you should take it up with them first.
 
Nightwind --

If it was just the breechplug not seating right, I'd say either shim the face of the plug or take enough off the breech of the barrel to allow it to seat, as suggested by others. BUT, at the very least, the rings you describe as marring the rifling are going to be felt during the loading and cleaning processes, and may very well affect accuracy. You might not actually be blamed for the imperfections in the barrel, but you will be blamed for using it in that condition.

I've built a number of guns as present for people's birthdays, Christmas, whatever. I like to meet whatever deadline's been set, even if it's just my own. I'd rather deliver the best quality possible, a little late, though, than give someone less than the best because "I ran out of time." After all, this isn't your fault; why let it turn into a situation that is likely to reflect badly on you?
 
Oops, I forgot all about the "rings: in the bore on my first reply. That really does make that barrel unusable and eliminates the option to just fix the breach. You would still have the bore issue to deal with as another poster pointed out.

Either way you should let your customer know that there may be a problem with delivery and why.
 
Thanks, really appreciate the responses. I figured much on the same lines as you. Just button it up and send it back. The customer agreed with you folks and I, and doesn't want me to continue with something we're not comfortable with.

The builder is one of the "big ones", and may have just plain had a bad day or someone else in the shop may have made it. But either way, it shouldn't have gotten past him. I won't say his name, I may give him another chance in June and see what happens then. Meanwhile, this rifle is being built with a different brand, same cal. and size that the owner drove 90 miles to pick up from Dan at The Log Cabin. Great and understanding customer says "don't worry about the deadline, take your time and build it right.

Thanks again guys!
 
Sounds like you have the right customer. I really helps when they are understanding. Sometimes things just happen.
 
Nightwind, would you please email me and tell me the maker. When I build a gun, I like to know the quality of the parts I buy, and who I can trust.
 
Kind of wondering about that as I think we all are, but I know of only of a couple of the makers that I haven't seen a bad barrel from. Now being fair I have used more of some makers than others. The big thing is that they are more than helpful to sort this out, and the other that it doesn't happen time and time again.
 
I find no excuses for barrels being shipped out in the condition that Nightwind describes. When the annular reamer marks are so deep as to show shadows, the bore was reamed with a dull reamer, or the reamer was forced to hard and fast. For a maker to sell such a barrel is a shame upon him. The barrel is the heart and soul of any rifle. It should be free of any flaws that can affect accuracy. Period. There are no valid excuses. The maker had a tough day? Tough. I should not have to suffer his tough day also. I do not mind paying a little extra money for quality, but when I do, I expect to get it. I don't know exactly what is mean't by BIG makers. Are you talking large output, or top quality makers? The company with the largest output of swamped barrels is the last one to trust. The company I mentioned earlier has a very poor track record on quality. So poor that one of the leading parts suppliers dropped them because of a 40% return rate, and yet people continue to brag on them because their barrel is fine. I have one of theirs on hand that is a competition quality tack driver, but I also have worked with eight others from this company that run from just acceptable, to being suitable only as a fence post. Their problems generally lie with tight spots and rough reamed bores. The tight spots are the sneaky ones. One can look in the bore to get an idea of how well polished it is, but one has to gauge in some manner for tight spots, and this, with most hobby builders, comes when the gun is finished and shot for the first time. Too late to return it in that case, with most companies. I reached the point where I run a patched ball through an unbreeched barrel to check for this, before I waste my time building a gun around it. Although doing this is no guarantee, it is better than nothing in lieu of having gauges. Smooth bores are no exception. If one expects good performance, a smoothy needs to be just as uniform as a rifle should be, but this is most often not the case. Many makers and most customers think, oh, it's just a smooth bore, it doesn't need to be perfect like a rifle, but if one wants good shot patterns, rough bores and tight or loose spots, most often nullify this possibility. A couple of years back, I used this company's barrel on a gun that I engraved extensively. The barrel got a fairly large amount of decorating around the breech, rear sight, and muzzle. I did make a visual inspection before building, but did not check for tight spots. This was my nicest work to date. Guess what? TIGHT SPOT! Even after a long session of lead lapping, this gun will only do three inch groups at 50yrds, which was an improvment over the five inch groups we got before lapping. Even if the maker would change it out, I am out a lot of work. The only practical answer for this one is to have a liner installed, which will cost more than the barrel originally did. I guess that I am rambling, but I am sick and tired of paying good money for poor goods. For my next customer on my list, I will try a Rice barrel. The methods used to make his are much superior to the those used by most, although if they are not properly inspected, things still can go wrong.
 
Wick Ellerbe said:
I find no excuses for barrels being shipped out in the condition that Nightwind describes. When the annular reamer marks are so deep as to show shadows, the bore was reamed with a dull reamer, or the reamer was forced to hard and fast. For a maker to sell such a barrel is a shame upon him. The barrel is the heart and soul of any rifle. It should be free of any flaws that can affect accuracy. Period. There are no valid excuses. The maker had a tough day? Tough. I should not have to suffer his tough day also. I do not mind paying a little extra money for quality, but when I do, I expect to get it. I don't know exactly what is mean't by BIG makers. Are you talking large output, or top quality makers? The company with the largest output of swamped barrels is the last one to trust. The company I mentioned earlier has a very poor track record on quality. So poor that one of the leading parts suppliers dropped them because of a 40% return rate, and yet people continue to brag on them because their barrel is fine. I have one of theirs on hand that is a competition quality tack driver, but I also have worked with eight others from this company that run from just acceptable, to being suitable only as a fence post. Their problems generally lie with tight spots and rough reamed bores. The tight spots are the sneaky ones. One can look in the bore to get an idea of how well polished it is, but one has to gauge in some manner for tight spots, and this, with most hobby builders, comes when the gun is finished and shot for the first time. Too late to return it in that case, with most companies. I reached the point where I run a patched ball through an unbreeched barrel to check for this, before I waste my time building a gun around it. Although doing this is no guarantee, it is better than nothing in lieu of having gauges. Smooth bores are no exception. If one expects good performance, a smoothy needs to be just as uniform as a rifle should be, but this is most often not the case. Many makers and most customers think, oh, it's just a smooth bore, it doesn't need to be perfect like a rifle, but if one wants good shot patterns, rough bores and tight or loose spots, most often nullify this possibility. A couple of years back, I used this company's barrel on a gun that I engraved extensively. The barrel got a fairly large amount of decorating around the breech, rear sight, and muzzle. I did make a visual inspection before building, but did not check for tight spots. This was my nicest work to date. Guess what? TIGHT SPOT! Even after a long session of lead lapping, this gun will only do three inch groups at 50yrds, which was an improvment over the five inch groups we got before lapping. Even if the maker would change it out, I am out a lot of work. The only practical answer for this one is to have a liner installed, which will cost more than the barrel originally did. I guess that I am rambling, but I am sick and tired of paying good money for poor goods. For my next customer on my list, I will try a Rice barrel. The methods used to make his are much superior to the those used by most, although if they are not properly inspected, things still can go wrong.

Wick .. may I ask what your process is for checking a tight spot in the bore? Are you just running a patched ball thru it to see if it "sticks"? An explanation of the process would be sincerely appreciated! :hatsoff:

Thanx

Davy
 
I've owned an excellent Colerain, and an excellent Rice. I've owned a very bad barrel by another well known maker. I'm currently having a Militia Musket built with a Getz barrel. I suppose they can all be a pig in a poke. I've never heard of a bad Green Mountain or Sharon barrel.
 

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