Armisport barrel find

[don hepler]

I was at a flea market yesterday, and there layed a new unfired barrel, marked Armisport Italy Cal..20. While others were convinced that it was a 50 cal. bored out, I noticed it clearly said cal.20, and then I noticed it had a bead front sight and no rear sight. It appeared to be the same size, as a Renegade barrel. So, for the price of $10. dollars, I decided to take a chance. It fits my Renegade stock, but doesn't have the groove milled in it like a TC or GM barrel, which is necessary to clear the lock plate. Should be an easy fix. I've never had a smooth barrel. I need to read up on loading. The barrel checks .62 dia. with it choked to .595.

I'm anxious to see this thing shoot.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Sounds like your about to have fun brother.
Lose the choke and you will have a ball thrower too.
Look after that nipple! If it is the same as mine 8x1mm they seem hard to source!

B.

 

[don hepler]

Are you suggesting that I ream the bore to a straight .62 diameter?

I used a set of telescoping gages to see if it was tapered. On a regular shotgun, you can take a reading, and drop the gage out the chamber, and then mic. it, but by having to pull the gage back through the muzzle, I could only get a .61, but it was loose in the barrel behind the choked portion, so I figured it to be .62. I think that is the correct size for a 20 ga., but I have zero experience, with smooth bore muzzle loaders.

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

If you leave the choke in place you will not be able to use inexpensive fiber cushion wads, card over-powder wads, and thin over-shot wads.

You will be limited to using the felt wads for 20 gauge shotgun made Ox-Yoke. The felt wad will "give" when you push it through the choke, then it will expand back out to fit the bore for the rest of the trip.

With felt wads, pour the measured charge, powder for shotguns is measured in drams ( 1 dram = 27.5 grains). So, 2-1/2 drams = 69 grains, round off to 70 grains on your powder measure.

Insert one felt wad to compress the powder, then add two, three, or four wads next to act as a shot cushion, then add the shot, say 7/8 ounce to 1 ounce of your game shot. Then, add another felt wad to act as a overshot wad.

So, each load requires from four to six wads for each load. You'd probably only get 16 to 25 rounds out of a bag of 100 felt wads @ $ 15.00 a bag

As you can imagine your loading time is extended to get the wads pass the choke.

If you bored out the choke to .620, you will have a true 20 gauge cylinder bore. Wads will now be cheaper. You can buy a 1000 over-powder card wads for about $ 11.00 from Circle Fly Wads (www.circlefly.com). Same price for overshot wads. Prelubed cushion wads, 500, at $ 18.00 are 1/2" height.

You only need one of each for each load.

Check out shooting the flintlock fowler videos by Mike B., the black powder editor here, and black powder editor for "Guns of The Old West" magazine. He has about a hundred different videos to see. He's "duelist1954".

Like Britsmoothly said, a cylinder bore can shoot a .600 or .610 patched round ball suitable for taking deer.

Hope this helps,

 

[Britsmoothy]

Not wanting to sound disrespectful you will be able with the choke in place use cheap or home stamped thin over shot cards, not just one over the shot, a few over the powder is all you need as a was too.
They curl past a choke easy, the rammer corrects them once past.
A ball of newspaper or such makes a good wads too but watch out for fires in dry conditions!

B.

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

No problem with me. But I think using that idea for the money, I'd buy the Circle a Fly Wads at $11.00 per thousand. That's a little over a penny for each wad.

As you mentioned though, leaving the choke in prevents him from shooting a patched round ball, which doubles the fun and capacity for game.

I shoot in friendly competition with my custom-made double barrel flint 12 gauge, and most of us use the Circle Fly wads, so that's why I recommended them, and they're cheap to shoot.

The proof of the pudding will be the pattern on the target, and for accuracy, consistency is the name of the game.

 

[Treestalker]

Mr. Hadden West, I think you found a treasure. If I may suggest, leave the choke in place, since you already have a rifle barrel, and you will have a most useful shotgun for practical use, and only you will knoow it's choked. :wink: The Caywoods up in Berryville, Ark charge $90 per barrel (last time I checked) to jug choke a straight bore barrel. So you not only cleaned up on a useful barrel, but saved money having it choked! :grin: Watch out turkeys and wascally wabbits! Aim small, that thing is choked! :thumbsup: George B./ P.S. I would try 65 gr 2f with 1 0z shot and check the pattern at 30 yds. Bound to be fun! P.P.S. I used to use brown bag paper wadded up for overpowder and over shot wads and did not lube it, Wiped between shots. GB

 

[don hepler]

A lot of information to absorb. But, it all makes sense and I'll try it out with the choke then decide if I want to ream it. I have flintlock rifles that I deer hunt with. I'd like to try it on some clay birds, to see if I can hit anything with it, then some doves. I have a hard time imagining swinging a rifle style gun on a moving target. It seems more like something for squirrels.

I really appreciate all the information.

 

[don hepler]

The ram rod was missing. I guess it would take a larger brass piece than the ones I have for rifles. I'll have to check the size of the thimbles, and try to make up a ram rod.

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

Any of the muzzle loading online catalogs have a 20 gauge brass jag for the ramrod. You may have to file down the circumference of the jag to allow it to pass through the choke.
Put the jag in a drill/drill press chuck and file down with a flat file.

If you have to file it down, be sure to recut the grooves to hold the cleaning patch. Use a triangular file to do the cutting. The jag can be used for pushing down the wads and cleaning between shots. The jag probably runs less than $5.

I'd recommend a threaded 8X32 or 10X32 female base on the other end, if it will fit the ramrod channel. You can also use a range rod with a 20 gauge male threaded jag as well. The base can accept a patch puller AKA a worm, if you need to pull the wads to unload the barrel.

Since you have to deal with the choke, an option to the jag for cleaning will be a 20 gauge wool mop because it will pass the choke and then expand to clean the walls of the barrel. The dirty mop can be washed and used over again and again.

If you like the idea of the wool mop, I'd buy two or more. One for the cleaning and one for the oiling of the barrel after cleaning it.

According to the Colonial Arms Choke Chart at http://www.colonialarms.com/chokespecs.html/
.595 diameter in a 20 gauge, measures between Improved Modified (.598 dia) and Full Choke (.592 did)


Hope this helps,

 

[don hepler]

Thanks to all. Have a nice Holiday.

 

[MikeEasy]

It fits my Renegade stock, but doesn't have the groove milled in it like a TC or GM barrel, which is necessary to clear the lock plate.

Since the highest pressures will be created at the breech, drilling or machining there could reduce barrel wall thickness catastrophically. Measure it well to ensure sufficient metal will remain or proof the barrel before taking it afield.

Alternatively, might the lock plate be trimmed instead (sounds kludgey, though).

 

[don hepler]

Oh, I totally agree. Cutting the lock plate would be the safest route. Better safe.....than sorry.

I appreciate your concerns. Thanks.