Advice Needed

[hunter_la5]

So I recently purchased a used Traditions .54 cal percussion cap Hawken style rifle from a gun shop for $75 on a whim. It appeared to be in pretty good condition, most of the finish was intact and there was only a slight patch of rust near the muzzle. all in all I thought I had a pretty good deal.

when I got home and cleaned it up, however, the nipple FELL OUT. when I tried to screw it back in, it fell out again. the threads would not catch at all. I assumed the nipple was bad, and ordered another one from Traditions. it too wouldn't stay in, and would slide straight in and out of the Bolster without having to twist it at all. Furthermore, the bolster clean-out screw will not come out. I'm suspecting that it isn't even the original one, because it's colored completely differently than the rest of the metal and is made of much softer metal and doesn't look like ones I've seen on other Traditions Hawken percussion rifles. I wonder if even the whole bolster is aftermarket.

either way it needs to be replaced by someone more competent than I as it won't hold any nipples. on the other hand, this is a $75 used rifle.

so here's my question, is it worth it to take the rifle to a gunsmith to get the bolster replaced? is this a big undertaking? would it cost much? I am new to muzzleloaders so I would have no idea how to repair this thing myself.

any advice would be appreciated. thanks guys.

 

[wwpete52]

It could be that someone had the wrong size nipple in the drum hole. Explore that first.
If the threads are stripped out it's still not a big problem. The cheapest way to fix that would be to order a new powder drum from Track of the Wolf or someone like that. It would probably only cost around $5-$6. You just unscrew the old powder drum off of your barrel and screw the new one in place. That's really all there is to it.

 

Hunter,
Chances are that the previous owner did not use the wrong thread nipple, he, or she, probably stripped the threads in the drum, or bolster. The reason I am guessing that is because they probably forced the wrong screw into the cleanout also. Try getting a .255 tap and rethread the drum and then order an oversized,.255 X 1/4, nipple. You may have to do the same thing for the cleanout screw, in an appropriate size. Good Luck.
Mark

 

[Rogue River]

TOW also has oversize nipples you can get to remedy the problem, you will have to get an oversize tap also. Careful if you are going to remove the old drum, the last one I tried to remove twisted off flush with barrel. If that happens just buy a new drum that larger and drill and tap the barrel for the new drum. Get a nipple and cleanout screw for the new drum. You can do everything for less than 10 bucks.

 

[robertdale]

don't forget the 9.95 shipping......;-)
try a 1/4 28 nipple first, just borrow one from a friend to try.
go to an oversize next, be ready for major work if you try to un screw the drum. could break off.
most "gunsmiths" don't know diddly about m.l.'s
good luck...........


rev.ironjaw.

 

[Zonie]

According to Track of the Wolf, the standard nipple for the gun has a 6-.75mm thread.

Assuming the thread in the bolster is stripped out, that makes the remaining hole about .236 in diameter.

As a 1/4-28 thread has a .250 major diameter if you simply retapped the hole with a 1/4-28 thread you would only have .014 worth of threads which isn't enough.

Ideally, the 1/4-28 thread has a minor diameter of .218 giving a total difference of .032.
Because your existing hole is about .236, if I add .032 to it it would equal .268 which is .018 larger than a standard 1/4-28 thread.

Track of the wolf has special nipples that are .005, .010, .015 and .020, .025... oversize and the correct tap to rework the hole for them.

Sense the .268 is theoretical I feel that a .015 oversize nipple (.265) would work just fine and would be totally safe to fire the gun with.

That said, I suggest that you buy several TOTW #ROS-15 nipples and a TOTW # Tool-Tap-15 tap.

Also buy a 15/64 (.2344) diameter drill bit.
You will need to enlarge the bottom of the existing drilled hole (but not the depth) for the new tap. This is because the stripped area of the hole is oversize but the bottom of the hole is still the correct size for the 6mm thread which is much too small for the new tap.

While your at it, when you buy the drill bit, also buy a small bottle of Thread Cutting Oil.
This is a special oil with sulfur in it. Regular motor oil will not work because it doesn't have the extreme pressure qualities needed for tapping.
This stuff is fairly inexpensive and it will lubricate the tap so it won't gall or break while your tapping the new threads.

All in all, I see this costing around $25 for parts. If you have a gunsmith do this fix, he will probably charge you about $50 labor. (They need to eat too.)

Good luck with your gun and let us know how things worked out.

 

[Smk50]

If it were me, (and I do a little work on stuff myself, so Im not tool illiterate) I would send it back to traditions to have them put in a new drum(the wont just sell you a drum for liability reasons) it is reasonable, it is done crrectly, and you have another 30 bucks or so in a 75.00 rifle that will now work safely and reliably. the prob with "just buying a new drum", is that the traditions are metric and screwed into the breechplug also. thats just my .02

 

[2172]

I like smk50's advice. I just bought the same gun (well 6 months ago) from a pawn shop the guy was asking about $180 for it....got it, and a CVA bear cub, for $150...I think your gun is worth at least the cost of sending it to Traditions..Hank

 

[arcticap]

According to Track of the Wolf, the standard nipple for the gun has a 6-.75mm thread.

Traditions uses 6 X 1mm nipples.

Somehow Track of the Wolf made a mistake.

Investarms uses the 6 X .75mm nipples in their Lyman & Cabela's guns.

I hope that didn't affect Zonie's math.
I agree with hank.
If the drum can't be easily tapped or you don't know anyone who will fix it inexpensively, then I would send the barrel to Traditions and let them fix it under their lifetime guarantee. At least get an original factory replacement drum so that the threads match and the hammer lines up properly.
It doesn't cost very much to ship a barrel.
I'll bet that Traditions will help you out. Give them a chance and let us know how they handle it. :hatsoff:

 

[Little Wattsy]

It could be that someone had the wrong size nipple in the drum hole. Explore that first.
If the threads are stripped out it's still not a big problem. The cheapest way to fix that would be to order a new powder drum from Track of the Wolf or someone like that. It would probably only cost around $5-$6. You just unscrew the old powder drum off of your barrel and screw the new one in place. That's really all there is to it.

With some reservation I just did that too...It was MUCH easier and cheaper then I could have imagined. Problem solved. Good gun!

 

[BrownBear]

I'm no expert by any means, but that's how it looks to me, too. I recently acquired a rifle with a custom barrel and drum. One thing to be aware of, and I'm checking to make sure that my "remedy" is kosher.

On mine the drum sticks far enough into the barrel that the inner edge stops my jag from reaching the bottom of the bore. I don't like not being able to clean all the way to the bottom. My proposed solution is simply to file the drum shorter so that the inner end is flush with the bore. I can't conceive of a reason filing will be a problem, but it's easier to ask first. Consultations are under way.

But take that as a sign of how easy it is to screw the things in and out. NBD.

 

[Sarge]

Traditions uses 6 X 1mm nipples.

Somehow Track of the Wolf made a mistake.

Roger that.

 

[Zonie]

"...Investarms uses the 6 X .75mm nipples in their Lyman & Cabela's guns.

I hope that didn't affect Zonie's math...."


The only thing this effects is it makes it all the more important to remove any remaining threads in the bottom of the existing hole with the drill bit.

The "minor diameter" of the course threads is smaller than the minor diameter of the fine threads so it definitely will need to be enlarged for the new oversize threads.

 

[hunter_la5]

If the threads are stripped out it's still not a big problem. The cheapest way to fix that would be to order a new powder drum from Track of the Wolf or someone like that. It would probably only cost around $5-$6. You just unscrew the old powder drum off of your barrel and screw the new one in place. That's really all there is to it.

so the bolster/drum should just screw right out then? I was afraid it was permanently attached or something. maybe this won't be such a hard fix after all... thanks!

 

[hunter_la5]

okay so track of the wolf has a bunch of different drums and I don't know which one to get.

7/16", 1/2", 12.5mm and 13mm drums. which one for a traditions hawken?

also, which threading? 5/16-18 thread, 5/16-24 thread, 3/8-16 thread, 3/8-24 thread, 7/16-14 thread, etc, so many options!

 

[paulvallandigham]

Call track on their 800 number, and ask them. They know exactly which drum you need for that gun, trust them.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Call track on their 800 number, and ask them. They know exactly which drum you need for that gun, trust them.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: They were VERY helpfull when I called to order mine and it was deliverd in like two days!

 

[hunter_la5]

Call track on their 800 number, and ask them. They know exactly which drum you need for that gun, trust them.

good advice, that's exactly what I did. I've ordered a new drum, along with a few other goodies. Hopefully this thing will be ready to shoot within a couple weeks. thanks for the help guys.

 

[hunter_la5]

okay I got the new drum a while ago but just now got around to replacing the old one, as Ive been out of town. It really wasn't as big of an ordeal as I was afraid it'd be. the old drum screwed right out with a pipe wrench and a little swearing, and the new one just needed a minor bit of fitting with my bench grinder to get it to index correctly. now she's good to go. thanks again everyone.

now hopefully I'll have a chance to make some smoke before I leave for school in a few days....