Adjusting Remington 1858 cylinder gap

[1stnamebassist]

So I’ve got my eyes on a Pietta Remington. The cylinder gap hammer down is about .011. Does that sound a bit excessive? It’s a stainless 2008 build. And how can you correct this? I’ve heard screwing in the barrel a full turn then dressing the forcing to get the gap where you want it is how it’s done. If that is how you correct the problem, how difficult is it to crank that barrel in a full turn? Would you have to remove it first then remove a little bit from the frame where the barrel screws in also? Is it worth the trouble, or should move along and look elsewhere?
Thanks for the help!

 

[n.h.schmidt]

My 58 Rem had a .016 gap. Man did that spit flame and powder. I first made a shim to move the cylinder forward. It was .010 thick. That did work. After a while ,I did move the barrel back 1 turn and adjusted the shoulder and barrel end.. It's not a job to do on a whim. If you can use the problem to get a much lower price do that.

 

[nick_1]

have two 1858 remis. the steel model is very tight. the Bison is a brasser and the gap is significant and not even. its wider at the top. enough of a gap that the cylinder pin gets fouled a lot. I also wish i had documented it from the time it was new. I only loaded the cylinder in the gun a few times. maybe twice? I load the cylinder on the bench but I have shot the pistol perhaps about a thousand rounds. I can't remember if it was always that big a gap...

 

[64Springer]

Trying to get a lower price by saying there's an .011 inch cylinder gap will only induce laughter.

.011 is nothing.

Buy the pistol. Enjoy the pistol.

 

[smokeum54]

.011 isn't that much. Not always, but i have seen new cylinders help close it up a bit and if it stays the same ya got a extra for a quick reload.

 

[1stnamebassist]

Trying to get a lower price by saying there's an .011 inch cylinder gap will only induce laughter.

.011 is nothing.

Buy the pistol. Enjoy the pistol.

Trying to get a lower price by saying there's an .011 inch cylinder gap will only induce laughter.

.011 is nothing.

Buy the pistol. Enjoy the pistol.

.011 isn't that much. Not always, but i have seen new cylinders help close it up a bit and if it stays the same ya got a extra for a quick reload.

.011 isn't that much. Not always, but i have seen new cylinders help close it up a bit and if it stays the same ya got a extra for a quick reload.

So I’m curious as to what point cylinder gap is unacceptable to you? Where do you draw the line?

 

[smokeum54]

So I’m curious as to what point cylinder gap is unacceptable to you? Where do you draw the line?

Depends on the use. Had a couple with 18 to 20 gap, good enough for light charge plinking but would gum up quick. For all of around use 15 is max for me. My "target grade" piettas, no more than 8. Although cylinder gap doesn't always dictate accuracy, my 40 year old ruger is sitting at 11 gap and will head shot a squirrel at 30 yards if my eyes will let me . Also, had a new Pietta cylinder handy just bought, it measures 2.019 front to back and my 20ish year old target model, that has been Heavily used, measures 2.016 long, hope this helps

 

[ZUG]

For the average "Joe" pistolero that gap is fine except if you want to be a competitive pistol shooter. For tin cans and local club shooting it's just fine. Save your money on that expensive gunsmith work and buy more balls, caps, and powder.

 

[user 52142]

For the average "Joe" pistolero that gap is fine except if you want to be a competitive pistol shooter. For tin cans and local club shooting it's just fine. Save your money on that expensive gunsmith work and buy more balls, caps, and powder.

Yep, what Zug said

 

[nick_1]

The gap on my brasser.44 Bison is .035 according to my spark plug gauge. this seems like a heck of a lot but she shoots straight. I just got a new rear sight blade from Taylors and installed it, zeroed it and then superglued it. this one has a decent trigger pull and I was able to get pretty decent consistency hitting my 25yrd plate off hand. the two shots i tossed at the 50yrd plate were close misses... I wonder if this thing is getting looser??? no big loads just consistent diet of 25g T7 which = at least 30g of real black?

 

[1stnamebassist]

For the average "Joe" pistolero that gap is fine except if you want to be a competitive pistol shooter. For tin cans and local club shooting it's just fine. Save your money on that expensive gunsmith work and buy more balls, caps, and powder.

Oh I wouldn’t send it anywhere for adjusting, I would do it myself. I have never screwed or unscrewed a barrel before, so I would have to read up on how to do it, or I was hoping someone who had done it before would share the technique they used. I did read an older article by a smith who used to have his gap set about .009 on Remingtons, but he received one with .003 gap and he figured he wouldn’t be able to get through a cylinder full of rounds, but to his surprise he had no binding even after several cylinders with no cleaning at all. I guess the tighter the gap, the less fouling gets into the cylinder pin. Plus if I’m at the range with my gun with a large gap, I don’t want to hose down the person shooting next to me with burnt powder and lead! It tends to wipe the smile from their faces!

 

[CaptainVane]

No different than me being peppered all day with hot 9mm brass from the guys to my left shooting semi-autos.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Oh I wouldn’t send it anywhere for adjusting, I would do it myself. I have never screwed or unscrewed a barrel before, so I would have to read up on how to do it, or I was hoping someone who had done it before would share the technique they used. I did read an older article by a smith who used to have his gap set about .009 on Remingtons, but he received one with .003 gap and he figured he wouldn’t be able to get through a cylinder full of rounds, but to his surprise he had no binding even after several cylinders with no cleaning at all. I guess the tighter the gap, the less fouling gets into the cylinder pin. Plus if I’m at the range with my gun with a large gap, I don’t want to hose down the person shooting next to me with burnt powder and lead! It tends to wipe the smile from their faces!

If you try it be aware that the latch for the loading lever is going to move back as well.

 

[1stnamebassist]

No different than me being peppered all day with hot 9mm brass from the guys to my left shooting semi-autos.

The guy with the 9 could have been me! I’ve also been in your position pulling hot brass out of my T-shirt!

 

[Rich44]

If you found the exact same gun with the clearance at .003 - .005 would you pay $150 more for it. Believe a gunsmith is going to want that amount easily. Moving that barrel back gets involved, as one thing affects another. And you want the front site at 12 o'clock. So if you're not happy with that gap as is than walk away from it. But it may be what you would be finding on stock models. Have you compared it to others?

 

[45D]

So I’m curious as to what point cylinder gap is unacceptable to you? Where do you draw the line?

For the reasons Rich44 gives, I don't do barrel setbacks.
The nice thing about the open-top platform is it easily allows the "endshake" ( or endshake and gap on some unmentionables) to be set to very specific numbers.
I have some top strap unmentionables that are in the .006" - .007" range and they shoot fine. My Remington is .004" or .005" I believe and it's quite accurate! All of my open-top revolvers are extremely accurate with .002" or less. However, it isn't "endshake" that determines accuracy. Endshake is more related to the "lifetime" of the "setup" of the particular revolver ( self destruction). Condition of forcing cone, bore and alignment makes or breaks accuracy.
So, "drawing the line" is a more "what are you willing to put up with" thing. ( probably not a whole Lotta help!!).

Mike

 

[1stnamebassist]

For the reasons Rich44 gives, I don't do barrel setbacks.
The nice thing about the open-top platform is it easily allows the "endshake" ( or endshake and gap on some unmentionables) to be set to very specific numbers.
I have some top strap unmentionables that are in the .006" - .007" range and they shoot fine. My Remington is .004" or .005" I believe and it's quite accurate! All of my open-top revolvers are extremely accurate with .002" or less. However, it isn't "endshake" that determines accuracy. Endshake is more related to the "lifetime" of the "setup" of the particular revolver ( self destruction). Condition of forcing cone, bore and alignment makes or breaks accuracy.
So, "drawing the line" is a more "what are you willing to put up with" thing. ( probably not a whole Lotta help!!).

Mike

My Pietta Sherrif model is about .006-.007 which I thought was a bit excessive! I can’t recall any of my unmentionables being that bad, so I assumed it would be the same for black powder. But I’m always learning something new in this hobby or sport. I appreciate everybody chiming in and helping me out here.

 

[nick_1]

so that bison with.035 is pretty insane??? it shoots well. I drilled a 5" plate several times in a row @ 25yrds today before I put it away...It fouls up the cylinder pin pretty bad but a squirt of barristol between cylinders keeps it running.

 

[Felonious]

No different than me being peppered all day with hot 9mm brass from the guys to my left shooting semi-autos.

Or the A-hole with the suppressed AR that's over gassed, blowing acrid smoke all over the place, with "hot" loads, mag dumping, and ejecting hot brass into the parking lot. Same with the muzzle devices that redirect the jet of hot gas and noise right into the shooter next to them.

I'm a big fan of the shell catching bags that mount onto the top of the rail and catch brass, and I'm surprised that some ranges don't request or require them.

Personally, I don't go to public ranges anymore. I've seen so many unsafe gun handling practices it's just not worth it.

 

[M. De Land]

So I’ve got my eyes on a Pietta Remington. The cylinder gap hammer down is about .011. Does that sound a bit excessive? It’s a stainless 2008 build. And how can you correct this? I’ve heard screwing in the barrel a full turn then dressing the forcing to get the gap where you want it is how it’s done. If that is how you correct the problem, how difficult is it to crank that barrel in a full turn? Would you have to remove it first then remove a little bit from the frame where the barrel screws in also? Is it worth the trouble, or should move along and look elsewhere?
Thanks for the help!

The barrel has to be removed , thread pitch determined and 1/8 less than one revolution must be removed from the barrel shoulder. You must cut it a few thousands short of top dead center so that the new shoulder compress fits the frame barrel hole into top dead center so it will be tight and will stay indexed.
Use a real barrel vice and flat bar frame clamp set up to take the barrel off so as not to warp the frame if seated real tight. A wood stick through the cylinder port is bad practice and asking for trouble.
Now the barrel cylinder gap needs to be determined and that amount removed from the breech end of the barrel. It can be done very well with a file if a person is patient but a lathe is much easier and faster.
I usually don't mess with the barrel cylinder gap unless over .008 then it's time to set it back. I say barrel cylinder gap because end shake it actually a term used for cylinders with a bushing on the front. End shake includes barrel cylinder gap but is a distinctly different measurement and is generally about .001 to .0015 . Most factory guns, cartridge or percussion, come with a barrel cylinder gap any where from .004 to .010 generally. Dan Wesson's were very tight factory set at .002.
Now the forcing cones needs to be checked and possibly re-cut to proper depth. We have gauges for cartridge guns but cap and ball revolvers usually do very well with ball or bullet when cut to half a ball diameter deep.
We use special forcing cone reamers on center bushings on a shaft turned by hand from the muzzle. The cone is first cut then lapped with a brass slug and lapping compound.
Do not round off the inside corner edge of a re-cut forcing cone only break the sharp edge to discourage lateral gas escapement.
Some times the loading lever and latch needs modifying depending on how much set back was required.
This stuff is a gunsmiths bread and butter work !