Adjusting a T/C single trigger?

[QuinnTheEskimo]

I picked up a single trigger Cherokee a month or so ago, I bought it despite the fact that my previous experience with a T/C WMC was all bad. I checked the trigger pull and it’s a bit North of 8 lbs and that’s not acceptable to me. Anyone have any suggestions as to how to lighten it or a gunsmith to send the lock and/or trigger to? I should’ve known better but the darn thing had nice wood...

 

[longcruise]

Suggest that you pull the trigger mechanism and look for any anomalies. I have never seen a Cherokee trigger mechanism so I can't tell you exactly what to look for, the three most likely problems are 1. Something bent or broke in the mechanism. 2. Poor geometry between the trigger and sear bar. Something out of whack in the lock. Ok, ilI' add #4, a combination of the above.

Check the lock for loose internal screws. Also check for lock screws that have been screwed in wrong or cross threaded. Could also be a matter of sear adjustment.

Bright side is that if it left the factory that way it probably hasn't been shot much.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Stone and polish,
Stone and polish
Stone and polish
(refit with a DeerSlayer?)

 

[necchi]

Stone and polish
(refit with a DeerSlayer?)

DeerSlayer won't fit the Cherokee.
Quinn, There is no "adjustment" to those triggers.
But as Griz said start with cleaning, polishing then reinstalling w/lube,, all of the individual lock and trigger parts.
It's all simple enough and we can walk ya through it.
The gun at best is only 25yrs old,, it could just need a little TLC

 

[Idaholewis]

You have seen and commented on my TC New Englander trigger job on Modernmuzzleloader, Follow the same steps, This TC Cherokee will be no different

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

You have seen and commented on my TC New Englander trigger job on Modernmuzzleloader, Follow the same steps, This TC Cherokee will be no different

I looked at that yesterday, unfortunately I can’t see the pictures and I’m not familiar enough with the parts and their names to understand what you’ve done without the photos.

 

[Idaholewis]

I looked at that yesterday, unfortunately I can’t see the pictures and I’m not familiar enough with the parts and their names to understand what you’ve done without the photos.

I didn’t realize the pics were gone, they are back up now

 

[Idaholewis]

The TC Seneca/Cherokee is just a scaled down version of the Hawken/Renegade. The tumbler will look identical, just smaller. Back when i did the trigger in my TC New Englander i was fed up with the ridiculous HEAVY trigger pull, and knew if I didn’t fix it i would likely never shoot the Rifle again, i am so accustomed to my super light Set triggers in my Hawken’s, Renegades, and Seneca’s that it’s TOUGH for me to pick up a Single heavy trigger and shoot it worth a darn.
Back when i did my TC New Englander trigger I also had a few extra tumblers in case i messed 1 up. It was an easy job, I was able to get the trigger pull in the 2.5 lb Range, I REALLY like my Little New Englander now! But if you are not comfortable doing this kind of thing i would advise taking it to a Gunsmith and having it done.

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

Thank you for putting the pictures back up. I think I understand what you did now. There are plenty of Cherokee/Seneca tumblers on eBay if I mess it up, although I’m not sure if the lock parts are interchangeable between the single and set trigger models? I’ve also got a spare lock, but it’s probably from a set trigger gun.

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

Is this the surface you reduced and polished?

 

[Idaholewis]

Yep That is the one! The Tumblers will be the same from a Set trigger, to a Single trigger. That difference is in the Triggers themselves, Not the Lock. Just Go Slow, and Check often, Polish That Notch Surface like a Mirror! Just polishing might make enough difference for you to like it? The only way i found to take off some serious weight was to Lower/Remove Metal, Then Polish the Notch where the Sear engages it, As you remove metal only do it from the Top of the Notch where your arrow is pointed, Don’t change the angle of the metal where the Sear engages, In your picture i am talking about left of your arrow, that Shelf, That is where the Sear engages and holds, Don’t get in there and remove metal, Only polish that, And Polish it HIGHLY!

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

I understand it now, you reduced the depth of the notch without changing the remaining portion. I needed to see the pictures and study the lock and tumbler. As it turns out, I have both a spare lock and an extra spare tumbler. I’m a dental lab guy so I have lots of stuff for polishing metal.

 

[Idaholewis]

I understand it now, you reduced the depth of the notch without changing the remaining portion.

This is Exactly what i did, by removing metal from the top of that notch, it is reducing the amount of surface that the Sear has to slide over before it releases, This not only reduces the pull weight, but also “Creep” A really good HIGH lustre polish makes a Big difference as well. Just remember if you remove to much material there’s obviously no going back, this is why i say Go slow, and check often. With calipers you can keep track of each .001 you remove

 

[Idaholewis]

All you are doing inside that Notch itself is High lustre polishing it where the Sear engages and Holds, You dont want to change that notch angle at all

 

[necchi]

Quinn and Idaholewis,
Although I'm not privy to the other forums photo's,, you've both shared enough for some of us to understand what your doing,, That is a fix,, but it's not something typically recommended here on this forum,, because it's too easy to go too far,, real quick,, when the heavy metal is being removed,,
, but it can be done with patience.
I understand that heavy single trigger in the TC Renegade stock series, but I've installed the double trigger and changed the trigger guard instead of modifying the lock. The New Englander stock (and other singles) do have the forward trigger mortise in the proper position and depth to accept a TC or Davis double. It's just a matter of inletting the rear of the trigger plate and changing the TG.(more inletting for rear mount)
It does leave a small part of inlet exposed from the previous trigger,, but you can plug it.

I guess I choose to do it that way then to send a modified TC lock tumbler into the future for some unsuspecting new buyer to ponder.
I mean When I die,, what will a nephew/cousin do with great uncle johns cool old ML?
(not knowing the tumbler has been modified?)

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

I’ll start out with just polishing and see if that gets me a usable trigger. 8+ pounds isn’t acceptable . Replacing with a double set would be my first choice but I could see that some of the inletting wouldn’t be covered with a DS trigger guard. Maybe I’ll look at that again and see if I can fill that space with a piece of brass. I don’t remember if I have a spare DS trigger and guard but they’re easy enough to come by on eBay.

 

[Idaholewis]

Quinn and Idaholewis,
Although I'm not privy to the other forums photo's,, you've both shared enough for some of us to understand what your doing,, That is a fix,, but it's not something typically recommended here on this forum,, because it's too easy to go too far,, real quick,, when the heavy metal is being removed,,
, but it can be done with patience.

necchi, I absolutely agree with you. In my original thread on MM i state that this Mod is not for everyone, and if you are not comfortable doing this kind of thing, DON’T Do it! Take it to a Gunsmith and have it done.

 

[BrownBear]

Old smith trick worth trying once you get that surface highly polished and before removing any more metal.

Most lubes don't last long on highly polished surfaces. The smith's trick was to rub it with paraffin. Sticks well and leaves a very slick thin lube that lasts a long time and is easy to replenish. I worked for the smith way back in my college days and he was guru for a rimfire shooting league for underprivileged kids. He'd locate very cheap used single shot 22 bolt guns and go to work turning them into "target" rifles for the kids. With target sights, occasional stock work and especially the trigger job, he turned those things into real shooters. One of the kids eventually went to the Olympics and several others managed to get to the nationals by the time they were getting out of high school. All done by starting them with cheap bolters and a lot of love. And paraffin.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Quinn and Idaholewis,
I understand that heavy single trigger in the TC Renegade stock series, but I've installed the double trigger and changed the trigger guard instead of modifying the lock. The New Englander stock (and other singles) do have the forward trigger mortise in the proper position and depth to accept a TC or Davis double. It's just a matter of inletting the rear of the trigger plate and changing the TG.(more inletting for rear mount)
It does leave a small part of inlet exposed from the previous trigger,, but you can plug it.

I guess I choose to do it that way then to send a modified TC lock tumbler into the future for some unsuspecting new buyer to ponder.
I mean When I die,, what will a nephew/cousin do with great uncle johns cool old ML?
(not knowing the tumbler has been modified?)

EXCELLENT logic John. I have several rifles with double set triggers and would make the transition from a single to a double without a second thought. This is great information.

 

[necchi]

but I could see that some of the inletting wouldn’t be covered with a DS trigger guard. Maybe I’ll look at that again and see if I can fill that space with a piece of brass. I don’t remember if I have a spare DS trigger and guard but they’re easy enough to come by on eBay.

I've used wood, easy enough to shape, fit and stain to match closely,, of course you can still see it but on the bottom of the stock like that it's not a glaring repair.
I'm not sure if the Cherokee stock is the same as the Renegade series, I don't have one at hand to check.
Yeah, there's always TG's and triggers on ebay, but the dickens is they aren't giving them away,, they're nowhere near the price they were a decade ago !