Accuracy with Kodiak Rifle

[twsteven]

A friend of mine has indicated that he plans to buy a Pedersoli Kodiak double rifle in the near future. He hasn't decided yet on the calibre (.50, .54, .58). He's asked me to see what I can find out regarding loads and expected accuracy. I have one in .58 calibre but haven't shot it enough to find any decent loads. The limited shooting I have done has produced "minute of elephant" results. :redface:
Does anyone have information they might share? Thanks for any replies.

 

[paulvallandigham]

It is a little silly to ask for accuracy evaluations when he doesn't even have a caliber in mind. And, then we need to know if he is going to be shooting round ball, or conicals, and if conicals, what kind of conicals? Then we need to know if he plans to use real black powder, or is he going to use the substitutes.

With double guns, there is inherent accuracy of each barrel, and then certain loads where the two barrels shoot a ball or bullet to the same Point of Aim. That distance needs to be stated for anyone to begin to recommend loads.

In your .58, for instance, I just googled Pedersoli Kodiak Rifle Loads, and read what I could find. One man talked about shooting his .58 with a .570 ball, and .010" patching, but the patches were blown, and the barrel got pretty dirty. He was shooting Black powder, but not cleaning between shots, and he did not indicate whether he was lubing the patches. He did get some initial accuracy at 50 yards with both barrels, hitting the black of the target, and the balls touching using 75 grains of FFg powder. He ended by saying he was ordering a .562 ball mould, and hoped to have better results. He was going to look into ordering a better minie ball mould to try them out. He fired some conicals using 60 grains of FFg at 40 yds, and was able to hit clumps of dirt with both barrels.

Someone else talked about putting 120 grains of FFg powder under a conical in his gun. That seems a bit much for a .58, but I am sure the company has designed the gun to take that much and not blow up.

Based on what I was able to find with my quick search, I think you can start at 60 grains of FFg powder and work up from there. Do use lubed patches, and do clean between shots. .58 cal. RB are going to weigh close to 300 grains, and that is a lot of wamp and stomp! Take it easy on your shoulder, as once you get these large caliber balls moving, there is not much that will stop them at any velocity. Do, measure both the diameter of the bore( across the lands) , as well as the groove diameter to determine what size patch is needed for a given round ball. The round ball should be just slightly smaller than the bore diameter, and the patch thickness needs to be thick enough to fill the grooves on both sides of the ball. Finally, always check those patches in your range testing. If they appear burned, or blown apart, the patch is wrong. Either it is made of poor fabric, or the weave is too loose, or the patch is too thin for that caliber and powder charge. Consider using over powder wads to protect the patching. Blown or burned patches is the single biggest cause of poor accuracy, and may be the explanation for what you have already experienced. If you are not picking up patches at the range and examining every one of them, you can only guess at what is going on with a given gun and load. That is no way to work up a load.

Invest in a copy of Dutch Schoultz's BlackPowderRifleAccuracy System. At $15.00, it is the best money you can spend. Give a copy to your friend, and he will thank you all the rest of his life. See the links under member services, above. Or log onto his website,[url] www.blackpowerrifleaccuracysytem.com[/url]

 

[twsteven]

"It is a little silly to ask for accuracy evaluations when he doesn't even have a caliber in mind. And, then we need to know if he is going to be shooting round ball, or conicals, and if conicals, what kind of conicals? Then we need to know if he plans to use real black powder, or is he going to use the substitutes."

Paulvallandigham, you are absolutely correct. And in fact, I told my friend much the same thing. I also explained that this was a traditional board and he tends to shoot substitute powder and saboted bullets. However, he asked that I make the inquiry, so as a friend, I did.

Any experiences that any members of this board might share regarding accuracy potential with Kodiak double rifles would be most appreciated and will be passed on to my friend. He has asked me to assist him in this manner, and I in turn have asked for information from the members of this board.

It has been my belief that those who frequent this board have always been ready and willing to assist others in the sport of black powder shooting. My thanks to anyone who will share whatever information/experience they may have.

 

[Wes/Tex]

The newer guns have seperate, fully-adjustable sights. The older ones had less adjustment and could be a bit aggrivating getting anything like matched groups. Once helped a friend with his .58 and it took 3 pounds of powder to decide to sight in one barrel with the sights and use Kentucky-windage with the other. These guns don't have the kind of man-hours put into "regulating" them like the old English double guns. Your fried will probably have to sight each barrel in with it's own sight for the groups using both barrels together will be rather problematical.

As for the calibers, some consideration will have to go into the type of projectiles used. The .50 and .58 are rifled with 1-48" twist and will shoot both balls and conicals. The .54 and .72 are rifled 1-66" and will be ball shooters. Any of them will have acceptable accuracy for hunting and plinking. The guns are fun to shoot and any of them will do the job.

 

Having more than a few years experience, (frustration), with pre-1900 doubles of both British and German manufacture, your friend is going to have to experiment a lot, as Wes said.

In my mind a sight for each barrel is a cop out but obviously a lot less expensive than properly regulating both barrels to one sight correctly centered on the rib. Under the stress of a charging animal that really wants kill you who is likely to remember the correct Kentucky windage?

Regulating a load in a double rifle is all about velocity and bullet weight. If your friend is serious a good book for him to own is "Shooting the British Double Rifle" by Graeme Wright. It's availble thru the Double Gun Journal and well worth the cost. It will explain loads and how they regulate.

Vic

 

Not 100% sure but I think they changed the rifleing to 1in 24 in the .50 and .54.

 

[MercerLake]

Welcome to the world of frustrating challenges, double rifles in general. I had a .54 cal Kodiak several years ago and each barrel shot acceptable groups with various loads, just could not get them to the same vertical plane. This required the use of two separate rear sights, this didn't work for me while hunting. Sold it!!
Three years ago I got bit by the bug again and bought a .72 Kodiak. Went to the range started shooting and the right/left barrels hit the same vertically. :grin: There is a Santa Claus!! I then started searching for the "magic" load to place left/right POI at the same point. As I only had PRB to work with it was relatively simple, starting low at 80 gr and working up. I found a range of powder charges where the L/R impacted close enough at 100 yds. One is attempting to balance recoil disturbance to the aim of the barrel during transit of the barrel by the ball. Ideally the barrels are aligned so the axis of each barrel will cross at some point downrange. Depending on the velocity and the resultant recoil the left barrel will tend to move to the left at the muzzle and the right will move some to the right at the muzzle. This causes the "cross-over" point of the barrels to move further down range than it was prior to firing. It simplifies things to start close (25yds) so you can see what is happening. Keep a target for each powder load increment identifing the holes from the Left and Right Barrel. Most rifles are manufactured to "cross-over" at 50-75 yards.
The good thing about all this is "you must shoot alot" as if you need an excuse for this frustrating excercise.
As for accurracy, my gun with my sights, old eyes, and me holding it groups left and right into about 4"-6" at 100 yards. At 50 yards it results in ragged holes. I shoot a .715"PRB, .010"lubed patch, .030" card wad, and 140 grains FFg for the above at about 1400fps at 10' from the muzzles.
Have fun!!! :thumbsup:

 

[Plains99]

When I set up a Cabela's .50 for Africa, I sighted the closest sight to the hammers to the right barrel at 50 yards and the left barrel to the farthest sight at 100... then carried the gun with the closest sight up and only used the left barrel and sight for long shots, which very seldom happened. At 50 yards the grouping was tolerable and an insignificant difference. You can't expect to pay less than $1,000 for a double and have it function like a $20,000 big game double. Doubles are meant to be short range guns... I think the Kodiak is a nice compromise but it sure ain't no Holland and Holland.

 

[mike alexandre]

Bought a .580 last year to do the 3 man team 5 minute most holes on a target shoot. Only had a short time to work out a load but this is what I came up with.
I used both 580 conicals and prb.
For conicals - 70g ff2 with a card between bullet and powder.
For prb 65g ff2 .575 ball .015 patch plain felt wad under ball -patch lubed with your favourite lube.
For sighting in -tried to adjust rear sights one for left one for right, ended up with L/H barrel sighted and used kentucky windage for R/H all this at 50yds. Found prb most accurate.
We won the team shoot against 4 other national teams.