Abused Colt 1860

[ChrisPer]

As I mentioned in someone else's thread, I was about ready to relegate my Colt 1860 to decorator status. But its become obvious people here know how to get them working better! I would appreciate your advice, because its a lovely piece of work with most of its original finish and deserves me learning to use it correctly.

It has some nasty damage to the locking notches on the cylinder:

I think this means that there is something wrong with the timing in the trigger parts. It looks like the bolt is being hammered into the locking notch before the cylinder is aligned. Yet there should be no hammering at those parts. When I cock it (clean and unloaded) it appears to lock up nicely and correctly aligned. At lockup the cylinder is fixed in the direction of rotation but the bolt does not stop the cylinder being turned by hand back 1/8" or so out of alignment. Is that correct?

After firing two cylinders full (no lube) the hand would not rotate the cylinder at all, it had to be forced around by manual effort.

2) Lube
Should I grease the 'base pin' around which the cylinder rotates to exclude and soften fouling there? The greased felt wads under the ball looked really a good idea. What size wad punch do you use?

I also wonder if the damage to the notches was done by manual turning of the cylinder because of the fouling.


3) What is the makers mark? In other 1860 threads people mention Navy Arms usually have a mark for Uberti, and octagon U on the left of the frame below the front of the cylinder. Mine has a light mark there that appears to be a circle with maybe an R and B or G or a cloverleaf shape.

4) What size are the nipples, if No.11 Remington and RWS No1075 caps fall off them? What are the right kind to use, or should I just change the nipples to suit what caps I can get?

4) I used 20gn powder, WANO PPP which is pretty near the same as FFF in grainsize. What charge do others use? What was the original full service charge for the 1860 Army?

5) The bullets all passed harmlessly over my 25m pistol target. I moved it to 15m and held about a yard low and that was putting them in the black. I appreciated the suggestion to someone else of using brass and superglue on the foresight and filing down todetermine height; is there a range of higher foresights available to buy and trim? And were originals adjusted to hit where the sights pointed or was that regarded as foolish? Is dressing the metal of the wedge, notch or the lower face of the barrel where they meet the frame the way they got them on target at the Colt factory?

Thanks for all the help you have already given in other threads on 1860s!

 

[ChrisPer]

Seeing I am on a roll, here are pictures from the works; first the cylinder advance teeth (whats the right word?) and then the hand and bolt visible in the frame. Hand looks perfect and I think it must be much harder than the teeth because it looks perfect and they dont.

The bolt looks a bit burred.

 

[Dphar]

The hammer on a colt should not actually impact the nipples, at least not hard enough to pean parts. This is not uncommon with the imports though or on originals with replacement nipples.
The lock bolt is out of time and appears to be peaning the edge of the lock bolt cut in the cylinder. Thus can cause it to skip and allow the cylinder to over rotate.

The cylinder ratchet is harder to fix. If it still functions OK I would not sweat this.
If it were mine and I was that interested I would reface the hammer so it stopped about .003 short of the uncapped nipple then make sure the notches and cam were good and have it case hardened in colors.
Then adjust the lock bolt timing and maybe reduce the thickness of the lock bolt/trigger spring slightly so that the bolt falls in the lead in cut and not the edge of the bolt cut.
HOWEVER, trigger and hammer notch work is best left to people who do this professionally. Colt sear surfaces are very small and mistakes are easy and they can be DANGEROUS. If you don't know how, don't. Since the surfaces are small they are also prone to wear especially if not properly hardened and tempered as needed.
I would lightly smooth and break any sharp edges on the advance hand where it bears on the ratchet. But again it requires experience to avoid problems. All these things are subject to subtle problems that can cause things not to work or be dangerous.
When the "fix it" cost is factored in a new best grade revolver from someone like Cimarron might be more economical.
If you MUST work on it yourself then get


"The Colt single action revolvers: A shop manual--volumes I & II" by Jerry Kuhnhausen
Amazon has it.
The first gen SAA guts are identical to the 51 Navy (51/60/61/72 OT) frame size percussion revolvers. The 49 and other "pockets" are about the same just in miniature.

Dan

 

[arcticap]

What was the original full service charge for the 1860 Army?

About 28 grains of powder.

 

[napolean]

Chrisper,
It's pretty faint in your photo, but I believe that is an Armi san Paulo (Euroarms) Makers mark.
The letters are actually DGG interwoven.
More info here: Link
Jon D

 

[necchi]

I'm kinda new to this revolver stuff myself,
No disrespect or accusations made to Chrisper cause I don't know when or how he got his revolver,

But isn't alot of damage like that caused by guy's "fanning" in a rapid manner for cowboy stuff?

 

[Zonie]

Yup.

 

[ChrisPer]

Right, so probably the best way to get this revolver shooting well is:
1) Get the right caps.
2) Fix on a trial foresight. I estimate it needs to be slightly over 1/2" high.
3) Load with grease over the ball, and grease the arbor pin/base pin. This will stop it fouling solid so quickly.
4) Find a 1/2" wad punch and some 1/8" felt to make greased felt wads.
5) Try Cream of Wheat filler under the ball.
6) Try a gunsmith to check out the timing of the bolt.

3) Profit!

Tonight I had arranged to go see my [strike]pusher[/strike] collector/dealer to get a percussion pistol for target matches... might look at a flinter or an Enfield instead...

 

[ChrisPer]

Tonight I had arranged to go see my pusher collector/dealer to get a percussion pistol for target matches... might look at a flinter or an Enfield instead...

An old Uberti Remington 1858 with target sights is following me home (after 3 months paperwork and waiting) - and a sadly beat-up but complete 'Zulu' rifle, but thats for another forum. While I am waiting I can get to know the Colt properly.