A strange 'modification' to a Parker-Hale rifle

[Whitworth]

Whoops my mistake , with 888 it's the real McCoy The bright case color made me think Italian. Of my 3 real P-Hs the highest SN is 52xx and no bolsters were drilled. Were the only P-H's drilled Whitworths?

 

[TFoley]

Whoops my mistake , with 888 it's the real McCoy The bright case color made me think Italian. Of my 3 real P-Hs the highest SN is 52xx and no bolsters were drilled. Were the only P-H's drilled Whitworths?

Dunno. My shooting pal has an early P53 that is smooth and a P58 that is not - both are well under 9000, the former under 500. I think, as with anything that was more or less hand-assembled, it was left up the the fitter to do or not. As for the replacement and hugely anachronistic 'replacement', I think that we can safely say that some klutz removed the proper part, lost it and then had a 'now what do I do?' moment.

Anyhow, I'm sure that Mr Minshall, who has forgotten more about these rifles than I ever knew, would give us the skinny. I pretty certain that they were ALL drilled in this fashion, and those that were concealed were done well enough to make you think that they were undrilled. however, I'm uncertain how you could make the channel through the bolster, multi-piece breech-plug and into the chamber without having to do it that way.

The difference in the case hardening is that P-H did it correctly, with bones and heat. It is deep into the surface of the metal. Later versions might look as colourful, but they are less penetrative in their application - I've seen such finishes on revolvers where they have disappeared in patches where cleaning after shooting was undertaken with a little too much vigour.

Here is an example of the 'solid' case-hardening 'peeling off' a not very old Uberti unmentionable......

 

[TFoley]

Whoops my mistake , with 888 it's the real McCoy The bright case color made me think Italian. Of my 3 real P-Hs the highest SN is 52xx and no bolsters were drilled. Were the only P-H's drilled Whitworths?

So is 420.

 

[smoothshooter]

I've had one WW rifle with, and my current rifle, with it fitted flush and hidden under the bluing - I' imagine that this was seen as a manufacturing unnecessary, taking time better spent on something else.

As I noted, it is not my rifle, nor is it yet in the hands of the new owner - paper-work must be done here in UK, even for an archaic design of muzzleloading single-shot rifle. It is a replica, therefore treated exactly like any other modern unmentionable.

Many thanks for your resplones - I'll pass them on and let him make up his own mind. In any event, he lives almost 500 miles away from me, so I don't think that I'm in any danger of a flying screw.

Whinemeal, I'll go looking via my own resources for proper screws, and post my results here accordingly.

I would remove the screw, verify that is of the proper length, and check for damage.
Next I would look at the threads in the bolster very closely for any damage
Then clean everything up really well with bronze brushes, apply some Loc-Tite, and reinstall the screw after doing some file work on the head to clean up the slot.
Then leave it alone unless there is a really good reason to remove it.
Order two or three replacement screws while they can still be had, just in case.

 

[EC121]

erious question for you, Sir. Would YOU stand on the right of this rifle when it is fired? I remember reading about a worn-out nipple blowing the hammer back with sufficient force to break in in two pieces and embed it in the shooter's forehead.

It would be no different than standing beside any number of drum ignition or patent breech rifles(homemade and factory rifles) with unknown replacement screws and touch hole liners. Most with maybe three threads holding the unknown metal screws.

 

[Stantheman86]

I'd like a source for the rear sight leaf screws that are properly threaded, because all but one of my P-H rifles have these screws that are totally buggered

 

[TFoley]

I would remove the screw, verify that is of the proper length, and check for damage.
Next I would look at the threads in the bolster very closely for any damage
Then clean everything up really well with bronze brushes, apply some Loc-Tite, and reinstall the screw after doing some file work on the head to clean up the slot.
Then leave it alone unless there is a really good reason to remove it.
Order two or three replacement screws while they can still be had, just in case.

After calling up the most likely sources here in UK - Henry Kranks - they are not to be had.

 

[TFoley]

I'd like a source for the rear sight leaf screws that are properly threaded, because all but one of my P-H rifles have these screws that are totally buggered

Again, STM, you are on your own, I fear. Parker-Hale screws are rare than a peruque for a python, as my grandmother used to note.

 

[GREENSWLDE]

If it's A P/H the thread will likely be BSW( Britsh Standard Whitworth), BSF(Fine) or CEI(Cycle Engieering Industry-Mostly 26TPI). Have the screw out and measure its O/D and TPI and check against The Machinery's Handbook,.(published in USA)..

 

[maillemaker]

Here is my understanding:

At least some historical Whitworth rifles had a cleanout screw. You can see this by googling up pictures of historical Whitworth rifles.

Enfield muskets (P56/P58/P53) did not have them.

Pedersoli caught some flak a couple of years back when they started selling Enfield muskets with cleanout screws. After getting flak they stopped doing that. No doubt they were trying to standardize on the barrel between their Whitworth and Enfield replicas.

There is nothing unsafe about a musket with a cleanout screw, provided the there are an adequate number of threads in good condition. Many muskets and carbines of the era had them, including the 1861 Springfield and the Smith Carbine.

It's important to check the condition of the threads. Pietta is notorious for over-cutting their nipple hole, which intrudes into the threads of the cleanout screw, leaving only 3/4 of the cleanout screw threads left intact, and there were few enough threads deep to start with.

Mr. Larry Flees does excellent work repairing this problem on Smith carbines.

 

[smoothshooter]

After calling up the most likely sources here in UK - Henry Kranks - they are not to be had.

A machine tool supply place or someplace like that should have them.
It is not likely that screw is unique to Parker-Hale rifles.

 

[ResearchPress]

Here is my understanding:
At least some historical Whitworth rifles had a cleanout screw. You can see this by googling up pictures of historical Whitworth rifles.

Do you have a link to an image? I have records of many original Whitworth rifles and don't recall seeing any with a screw. There's either nothing visible or a platinum cap.

There is nothing unsafe about a musket with a cleanout screw, provided the there are an adequate number of threads in good condition. Many muskets and carbines of the era had them, including the 1861 Springfield and the Smith Carbine.

Irrespective of the features on American longarms, the Parker-Hale breech plug on their Whitworth and Volunteer rifles is complex, made of three parts that screw together. The screw in the bolster appears to be a simple pragmatic solution to closing off the hole, that passes through the bolster into the separate chamber (the latter screws into the bolster). On Parker-Hale parts the screw is simply identified as 'Screw Breech Plug'. In their cleaning instructions for the Whitworth, there is no reference to removal of the screw.

David