Hi all, just started my TOTW Bivins kit and after six hours of color transfer and scraping have the barrel and lock fully inlet. I never touched the bed of the barrel mortise or the sides of the lock mortise but the barrel mortise is off kilter and the lock has alot of unsightly gaps. I imagine epoxy mixed with saw dust will work for the lock but the barrel bed has me most worried because if I line up the barrel level and square there is a gap between the barrel and stock below the lock bolster. I guess I'm a bit disapointed and wish I had bought a blank instead, at least the screw ups would be mine. Would a bedding compound work or should I level the bed with a chisel. odis
-
This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.
Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades -
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
A Question
- Thread starter anika
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
George Holton
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2006
- Messages
- 412
- Reaction score
- 4
yes bedding comp
odis said:
Like Chris, I'm not sure what your specific problem is. When you say you never touched the bed of the barrel, or the sides of the lock mortise, are you saying that those parts are not fully seated in the bottom of the inlets?
I can only assume this a precarve stock that was not properly inlet for your parts?
If that is the case, I suspect that your barrel is not bottoming on the pre-inlet barrel channel, and the pre-inlet lock mortise is too large for your lock.
I also get the impression that the barrel wobbles in the inlet. A properly inlet barrel should seat solidly, with no movement.
I suspect that the barrel may not be inlet deep enough, however, at this point, inletting the barrel deeper may cause a problem with the location of the lock.
Those 95% inlet precarve stocks need a LOT more than 5% of inlets completed. In some ways, the preinlet stocks are harder to assemble than stock blanks.
Photos would be good, or a more clear explaination of the problem. Both would be better.
J.D.
Odis,
I believe if it were me, I would contact TOW and see what they say. I am about ready to order a parts set from them and I would not want any gaps around the lock or having to add wood or bedding compound either. Thats not what you're paying for. Good luck and keep us posted.
tim
I believe if it were me, I would contact TOW and see what they say. I am about ready to order a parts set from them and I would not want any gaps around the lock or having to add wood or bedding compound either. Thats not what you're paying for. Good luck and keep us posted.
tim
Just came up from the dungeon. Been working on the trigger guard and the ramrod pipes. As to the questions you guys are asking the barrel mortise is cocked slightly to the lock side of the stock. When I seat the barrel into it it looks great no gaps at the muzzle and no gaps at the lock bolster. But when I put the square to it from muzzle to breach its off a bit uniformly front to rear. When I straighten it square and level in the stock with the the left side bottom flat snug in its mortise the right side has a gap under the flat all the way back to the breach. I inlet it very snug and tight with scrapers files and 60 grit sand paper I can only assume the blank went through the machine they use to cut the mortise slightly cocked to one side. It deffinately appears to NOT be warped. odis
Stophel
75 Cal.
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2005
- Messages
- 5,949
- Reaction score
- 858
Pay no attention to the lock panels or the sides of the fore end (hard to do, I know). Hold the gun up with the barrel in it and look forward from the buttplate. Hold it so the buttplate is fairly straight up and down (actually, it can be advantageous to have a bit of toe-out...the toe can be tilted a bit toward the right side of the gun). Remember, DON'T look at the lock panels! Now, is the barrel level? If so, the problem lies entirely within the lock inletting. If the barrel is crooked when looking at it this way, then the barrel channel is wrong.
It can be pretty hard to get the barrel squared up where it should be when it's cocked pretty bad. Twisting the barrel in the inlet will push the ramrod hole off to one side...and that looks awful.
Without seeing it or having it in my hands, I can't really suggest a "good" course of action, other than to say that you should do your adjustments in the lock inletting as much as humanly possible. Glue in wood, cock it around, MAKE it work. Tilting the barrel just ain't good. If the butt area of the stock is still oversize, it will make this all that much easier. You will still have room to adjust the position of the toe of the stock and make it straight.
It can be pretty hard to get the barrel squared up where it should be when it's cocked pretty bad. Twisting the barrel in the inlet will push the ramrod hole off to one side...and that looks awful.
Without seeing it or having it in my hands, I can't really suggest a "good" course of action, other than to say that you should do your adjustments in the lock inletting as much as humanly possible. Glue in wood, cock it around, MAKE it work. Tilting the barrel just ain't good. If the butt area of the stock is still oversize, it will make this all that much easier. You will still have room to adjust the position of the toe of the stock and make it straight.
Chris is right, in that it is VERY difficult to determine what the correct fix might be without having your gun in our hands. However, if I read your problem correctly, there are a coupla solutions for you to think about.
Since you mentioned that you did not touch the bed of the barrel inlet, I suspect that the barrel is not fully inlet into the barrel channel.
IMHO, the best solution is to remove the barrel and re-inlet the two oblique flats, then the bottom flat, until the barrel is seated solidly in the barrel channel. Conversely, if the gaps aren't too bad, the barrel might be bedded using a good bedding compound. Acraglass comes to mind. Keep in mind that a little acraglass can go a looonng way.
Do you have a book on gunbuilding? Or, a gunbuilding DVD? While the books probably offer better instructions, seeing the process of inletting a barrel in a DVD can help clear up any questions you might have.
Smartflix has several DVD's on gunbuilding on their site. I have not seen all of them, so can't comment on clarity and content, but renting is less expensive than buying.
Maybe one of the builders can recommend the best DVD from Smartflix's offerings.
[url] http://smartflix.com/store/category/75/Kits-Scratchbuilt[/url]
The oversize lock mortise can be fixed by gluing thin slivers of wood into the gaps, using stainable glue.
good luck
J.D.
Since you mentioned that you did not touch the bed of the barrel inlet, I suspect that the barrel is not fully inlet into the barrel channel.
IMHO, the best solution is to remove the barrel and re-inlet the two oblique flats, then the bottom flat, until the barrel is seated solidly in the barrel channel. Conversely, if the gaps aren't too bad, the barrel might be bedded using a good bedding compound. Acraglass comes to mind. Keep in mind that a little acraglass can go a looonng way.
Do you have a book on gunbuilding? Or, a gunbuilding DVD? While the books probably offer better instructions, seeing the process of inletting a barrel in a DVD can help clear up any questions you might have.
Smartflix has several DVD's on gunbuilding on their site. I have not seen all of them, so can't comment on clarity and content, but renting is less expensive than buying.
Maybe one of the builders can recommend the best DVD from Smartflix's offerings.
[url] http://smartflix.com/store/category/75/Kits-Scratchbuilt[/url]
The oversize lock mortise can be fixed by gluing thin slivers of wood into the gaps, using stainable glue.
good luck
J.D.
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks guys, I have the Buechel book and Alexanders book read them both, plus I keep the Alexander book on my bench. Stophel I think you hit it on the nail head in which case I'm ready to chop in the breach plug and tang. The lock mortise was cut to short so I had to cut in the back and I did that part real nice. the rest of it was to wide, the guts of the lock were all to shallow and took alot of wood removal. Any suggestions on a good stainable glue? For now my long range plans are to brown the lock barrel and furniture and a lighter colored brown like honey or whiskey for the stock. I'm not concerned with it being historically correct just a nice looking rifle for hunting and plinking. Thanks again odis
If you decide to keep the stock, one of the best fixes that has been recommended to me is to plane off thin curls of wood a little thicker than you need.
Iron them with a steam iron. Stain them with whatever you want. Cut them with a scissor slightly oversize. Glue in with Elmer's stainable glue. Clamp in place. Then re-inlet, if necessary.
By lapping a number of curls, rather large gaps can be filled and there is no real edge to see. Just looks like a natural flaw or weird grain in the wood. They can be driven in, pressed in with a burnisher etc. Elmers wood glue can be used, but its just to stick the pieces together and to the stock, and not for a filler.
Make sure the grain flow runs the right direction to avoid a difference in the way the light reflects from the wood. If need be a sliver(s) can often be cut from a hidden area. Such as under the tang, from the patchbox cavity or from the mainspring inlet area in the lock mortise.
Iron them with a steam iron. Stain them with whatever you want. Cut them with a scissor slightly oversize. Glue in with Elmer's stainable glue. Clamp in place. Then re-inlet, if necessary.
By lapping a number of curls, rather large gaps can be filled and there is no real edge to see. Just looks like a natural flaw or weird grain in the wood. They can be driven in, pressed in with a burnisher etc. Elmers wood glue can be used, but its just to stick the pieces together and to the stock, and not for a filler.
Make sure the grain flow runs the right direction to avoid a difference in the way the light reflects from the wood. If need be a sliver(s) can often be cut from a hidden area. Such as under the tang, from the patchbox cavity or from the mainspring inlet area in the lock mortise.
Similar threads
