A day on the range with the new Lyman TR

[pacanis]

As I mentioned yesterday in the What MLing stuff are you doing thread, Yesterday's first time shooting the new Lyman Trade Rifle did not go so well. After the first two shots I was chasing holes. The trigger was horrendous. What was even more horrendous was the condition of the lock after I pulled it. Some weird kid of shavings/grit and any part that interacted with another was very gritty feeling. In spite of cleaning and oiling things. Very rough casting. And the major burr on the tumbler that the sear had to fight to get over sure wasn't helping things.
But it's a $500 rifle, so I expected to put a little time into it. And I got to learn about a different kind of lock than what I am used to.

So after a major fluff and buff, the trigger pull was much more comfortable. I didn't gauge it, but at least it would be on the scale now.
I did hit the front sight this morning with a white paint stick until I get a silver blade ordered. The sight picture was improved, but not as nice as I like.

First two shots today at yesterday's 6"rnd target.
Oops, forgot to say 3F. And the powder was Grafs.

Tap, tap, tap

Notice how the elevation also came up for whatever reason? More on that later...

Fresh target after an alcohol swab. Excuse my field notes, but it's easy for me to remember what I was doing if I can read it later

Shots four and especially five were getting noticeably harder to load so I dropped down to a prelubed .010 patch

Then out of the blue

So I cleaned it the best I could with what I had, small alcohol swabs, tow and a .45 brass brush.
Note to self: Find a small spray bottle I can put some moose milk in for my range box.

So, what did I learn?
I think this rifle likes to be clean. I was pretty happy with how it was shooting up to those two fliers. But I did notice the dirtier it gets the higher it shoots from more pressure pushing the ball along. Now that the windage is good I'll have to see how those first two shots shoot after it's had a full cleaning. See if they are 2" low like today's first two shots.

I really didn't purchase this gun for anything specific, I just wanted a Lyman. So I'm happy enough with it. Maybe next time out I'll try some Maxis just to see.

Forgot: My one complaint is the wedge backs out.
It wasn't all that tight to begin with, so I put a bend in it last night and it had to be tapped in. I thought it was good to go, but it backs out a little every shot. And it's still tight enough I can't move it in or out with my fingers.
Suggestions? Try putting it in from the other direction? I know last night I would only go in in one direction.
My TC only has one wedge and it stays put...

 

[ETipp]

Pacanis, first off congrats on the new ML.

I'm no expert on this and please do not take this wrong.

It looks like the ML is shooting fairly well. Considering there are basically two different groups, both of which are tight, have you ruled out shooter error? Your statement on sight picture, as well as last shot after field cleaning somewhat gives merit to my suspicion.

A loose barrel wedge could be the issue. When you say you bent the wedge, were you meaning you bent the slot or the wedge itself?

EDIT: Suppose to bend the slot in the barrel lug down with something round, such as a 1" bar.

The patch appears to be in good condition. I see no cuts or burns in it.

It's obvious that it does not like a .010 patch.

Did you weigh the RB's for consistency?

Patch lube?

If it were me and still getting problems with fliers after checking the others in the above, I would also try a different powder charge and/or a .495 ball with different thickness of patch.

 

[pacanis]

Pacanis, first off congrats on the new ML.

I'm no expert on this and please do not take this wrong.

It looks like the ML is shooting fairly well. Considering there are basically two different groups, both of which are tight, have you ruled out shooter error? Your statement on sight picture, as well as last shot after field cleaning somewhat gives merit to my suspicion.

A loose barrel wedge could be the issue. When you say you bent the wedge, were you meaning you bent the slot or the wedge itself? Suppose to bend the slot down with something round, such as a wooden file handle.

The patch appears to be in good condition. I see no cuts or burns in it.

It's obvious that it does not like a .010 patch.

Did you weigh the RB's for consistency?

Patch lube?

If it were me and still getting problems with fliers after checking the others in the above, I would also try a different powder charge and/or a .495 ball with different thickness of patch.

Thanks for weighing in @ETipp

Those two side by side groups could certainly be operator error and trying to center the blade. It pretty much fills the whole rear slot in the sight picture. I was thinking of taking a file to it. I don't want to enlarge the rear sight notch in case I go to a thinner blade.
The two shots that are 7-8" high I have no idea, but I'm ruling out me in those. And a loose wedge could have certainly figured in like you said.

So you're supposed to adjust the slot on the barrel rib?
I had adjusted the wedge itself, but when I cleaned the gun the bend I put in it was gone.
I'll have to fix that. Thanks.

I did not weigh the balls.
I was using mink oil as a lube.

 

[erhunter]

I don't think that's bad shooting at all pacanis! I have a Trade Rifle also and it does like to be cleaned after each shot. The Lymans have pretty deep grooves so stick with your thicker patch. Just for curiosity did you find your .010 patch? Was it burned through or did it look like your thicker one as far as holding up after the shot? If it looked good you might want to try a .495 ball and .010 patch or a .012. You might want to try Dutches Dry Lube system. Mine likes 7/1 water, Ballistol. I found in mine the slippery, thick lubes didn't shoot well at all in mine. That's really not bad grouping though!

 

[pacanis]

Thanks @erhunter
That red ticking patch was the only patch I found that looked like I just shot it. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it, the ground is getting kind of littered with patches. I was looking for another patch each time I walked up and back to snap a pic.

 

[pacanis]

I ended up using a spare wedge to hit the slot and bend it some. I laid the button end on the metal. A hickory handle wasn't putting a dent in it.
The gun's wedge seems to fit much better now and is tight the whole way in.

Hopefully the weather holds off today and I can test it out.
Maybe I'll give that 50/50 miracle lube a try, too

 

[erhunter]

I ended up using a spare wedge to hit the slot and bend it some. I laid the button end on the metal. A hickory handle wasn't putting a dent in it.
The gun's wedge seems to fit much better now and is tight the whole way in.

Hopefully the weather holds off today and I can test it out.
Maybe I'll give that 50/50 miracle lube a try, too

Please post your results.

 

[ETipp]

I ended up using a spare wedge to hit the slot and bend it some. I laid the button end on the metal. A hickory handle wasn't putting a dent in it.
The gun's wedge seems to fit much better now and is tight the whole way in.

Hopefully the weather holds off today and I can test it out.
Maybe I'll give that 50/50 miracle lube a try, too

Pecanis, my mistake. I got it mixed up with cleaning up the ends of the riflings. That's where it is recommend to use a round file handle.

Lyman recommends using a 1" bar over the barrel lug.

Scroll down to the section "Fitting Wedge Pins".

See figures 4 and 4A.

Anyway, now that you have it then perhaps you might need use that information on another ML later on.

 

[pacanis]

Please post your results.

You bet. Just got back in and the pics sorted out.

First off, it is super bright today and the sun was directly overhead and I saw the front sight in a new light... especially wearing my glasses with the aperture hole on them.
When I painted the vertical part of the blade white yesterday, I left a hairline strip of black from the paint not going all the way to the corner. I'm sure now that I was waffling between holding the blade a little left or a little right. I wouldn't have even noticed that yesterday because things were not crisp enough. But I sure saw it today and made sure I was holding the front blade centered in the rear notch.

Note to self: after having barrel out of stock it takes a few shots to settle it in. Just like a modern rifle

First six shots

And a strong finish

I didn't know I could shoot like that, lol.
And what a difference having a wedge that does not move is.

There were a couple alcohol swabs done, but nothing major. All it seemed to affect was loading and not POI.
I don't think I'm going to change a thing. Except for touching up that white paint.

 

[springfield art]

As I mentioned yesterday in the What MLing stuff are you doing thread, Yesterday's first time shooting the new Lyman Trade Rifle did not go so well. After the first two shots I was chasing holes. The trigger was horrendous. What was even more horrendous was the condition of the lock after I pulled it. Some weird kid of shavings/grit and any part that interacted with another was very gritty feeling. In spite of cleaning and oiling things. Very rough casting. And the major burr on the tumbler that the sear had to fight to get over sure wasn't helping things.
But it's a $500 rifle, so I expected to put a little time into it. And I got to learn about a different kind of lock than what I am used to.

So after a major fluff and buff, the trigger pull was much more comfortable. I didn't gauge it, but at least it would be on the scale now.
I did hit the front sight this morning with a white paint stick until I get a silver blade ordered. The sight picture was improved, but not as nice as I like.

View attachment 244138

View attachment 244139

First two shots today at yesterday's 6"rnd target.
Oops, forgot to say 3F. And the powder was Grafs.
View attachment 244140

Tap, tap, tap
View attachment 244141

Notice how the elevation also came up for whatever reason? More on that later...

Fresh target after an alcohol swab. Excuse my field notes, but it's easy for me to remember what I was doing if I can read it later
View attachment 244142

Shots four and especially five were getting noticeably harder to load so I dropped down to a prelubed .010 patch
View attachment 244143

Then out of the blue
View attachment 244144

So I cleaned it the best I could with what I had, small alcohol swabs, tow and a .45 brass brush.
Note to self: Find a small spray bottle I can put some moose milk in for my range box.
View attachment 244145

View attachment 244146

So, what did I learn?
I think this rifle likes to be clean. I was pretty happy with how it was shooting up to those two fliers. But I did notice the dirtier it gets the higher it shoots from more pressure pushing the ball along. Now that the windage is good I'll have to see how those first two shots shoot after it's had a full cleaning. See if they are 2" low like today's first two shots.

I really didn't purchase this gun for anything specific, I just wanted a Lyman. So I'm happy enough with it. Maybe next time out I'll try some Maxis just to see.

Forgot: My one complaint is the wedge backs out.
It wasn't all that tight to begin with, so I put a bend in it last night and it had to be tapped in. I thought it was good to go, but it backs out a little every shot. And it's still tight enough I can't move it in or out with my fingers.
Suggestions? Try putting it in from the other direction? I know last night I would only go in in one direction.
My TC only has one wedge and it stays put...

 

[pacanis]

Pecanis, my mistake. I got it mixed up with cleaning up the ends of the riflings. That's where it is recommend to use a round file handle.

Lyman recommends using a 1" bar over the barrel lug.

Scroll down to the section "Fitting Wedge Pins".

See figures 4 and 4A.

Anyway, now that you have it then perhaps you might need use that information on another ML later on.

Thanks for that.
I have a gentle bend in it, so it worked out perfectly.

 

[springfield art]

Great that you can do some tweaking yourself! Otherwise, some owners would want to "trade" it off themselves! You do have to be a bit handy doing muzzleloading.

 

[pacanis]

Great that you can do some tweaking yourself! Otherwise, some owners would want to "trade" it off themselves! You do have to be a bit handy doing muzzleloading.

Totally agree.
There isn't much that you can buy anymore that doesn't need even a small amount of tweaking. Not when it comes to guns.

 

[ETipp]

You bet. Just got back in and the pics sorted out.

First off, it is super bright today and the sun was directly overhead and I saw the front sight in a new light... especially wearing my glasses with the aperture hole on them.
When I painted the vertical part of the blade white yesterday, I left a hairline strip of black from the paint not going all the way to the corner. I'm sure now that I was waffling between holding the blade a little left or a little right. I wouldn't have even noticed that yesterday because things were not crisp enough. But I sure saw it today and made sure I was holding the front blade centered in the rear notch.

Note to self: after having barrel out of stock it takes a few shots to settle it in. Just like a modern rifle

First six shots
View attachment 244430

And a strong finish
View attachment 244431

I didn't know I could shoot like that, lol.
And what a difference having a wedge that does not move is.

There were a couple alcohol swabs done, but nothing major. All it seemed to affect was loading and not POI.
I don't think I'm going to change a thing. Except for touching up that white paint.

Good shooting, Pacanis. Glad you got it figured out.

Looks like you got yourself a good shooter.

 

[Thingamajiggy]

A little late chiming in here, couple of long work days. Looks like ya got it figured out, today's shooting looks really dialed in. I agree with others statements, my investarms made ML (besides 1 really finicky .54 that likes it dirty) seem to like a cleaner barrel, especially depending on lube you are using and thicker patches due to deep grooves. Now write it all down before you forget everything, LOL. Good luck this season with it.

 

[pacanis]

Thanks guys.
And now knowing how to properly tighten a wedge proved invaluable.

I'll have to see if the TC "Hawken" can benefit from that.