40 cal uses?

[Jim C]

I would suspect that the settlers carried whatever they had - that is, few of them could afford to upgrade to a bigger bore, and stand the additional expense of extra powder and increased cost- per- shot. I might well be wrong about that.

personally, I'd be hesitant to take down a white tail with my .40, but if it was all I had and my family was hungry, I'd take the best shot I could get. now, those humongous mule deer they have in the Lone Star State, well I suspect that trying a .40 would just irritate the deer ... dunno ...

as a 'small game' caliber, I think the .40 is the cats' meow, but that's just one guy's opinion and it's completely free.


no doubt well worth the cost!


in any event, I wish you well, and Make Good Smoke!

Mine is so dad blame accurate that if Wa state allowed it for deer I wouldn't hesitate to take head shots out to 50 yds for an instant one shot kill, and never look back.

 

[azmntman]

No one has mentioned barrel twist. With a 50 or 54 caliber a 1 in 48 twist is said to give good accuracy with both a round ball and some conicals. On a 40 caliber gun, is there a twist rate that works well with both prbs and conicals?

I called Bobby Hoyt to discuss making my traditions .36 a .40. He suggested 1-48? I woulda thought slower but per his reputation when I do it I will go with his recommendation.

Oh and we did not discuss prb vs conical. I would likley use prb only

 

[majg1234]

My Southern Mtn rifle has a 1/48 twist in a long Hammock barrel,she is wonderfully accurate with PRB

 

[Artificer]

I think in the Foxfire Books there is a section on "Uncle Joe" the Bear Hunter. Of course it was Black Bear Hunting and NOT Griz. Can't remember if he was from Kentucky or Tennessee.

The way he hunted Black Bear was with a pack of dogs and the dogs would tree the bear and then he shot the Bear. However, there were times the dogs circled the Bear and the Bear fought them on the ground, so he had to finish the Bear quickly.

What surprised the heck out of me was he began his early Bear Hunting Career with a .41 Caliber Percussion Rifle with a PRB. Good GRIEF he had to make those shots count, especially when the Bear fought the dogs on the ground. It did say he thought the rifle was a little too small/under powered caliber, though. So he eventually wound up going to a .47 Caliber Percussion rifle with a PRB. Now to him, that was a significant increase in killing power and he used that rifle for the rest of his long Bear Hunting Career.

Gus

 

[galamb]

You are going to get many of those "depends" answers.

My 40 cal was an off the shelf Colerain barrel - 1:48 with 16 thou rifling (round) - it was a "round ball" barrel.

My 38 is a custom (FCI) that I got cut 1:48, 12 thou, round rifled - again, a roundball barrel.

I did work up all the math for a "conical shooting" longer distance 40 cal but ended up not building it (yet) - discussed the barrel with The Gun Shop (Oregon barrel).

Was going to go with a 1:28 twist 4 thou square rifling because that was "better" for shooting an un-patched or paper patched "conical".

There isn't a variety of conicals for a 40 like their are other calibers - you can even get maxi-balls from T/C for the 32 and 36 - no so for the 40. Likewise, LEE doesn't have an "on the shelf" REAL mold either.

So if you want to shoot conicals for a 40, you are probably going to have to make them yourself or resize pistol bullets.

Unless you plan on a custom "conical" barrel I would abandon that idea with the 40 (as a conical or conical/PRB shooter) and get a 1:48 "roundball" barrel....

 

[excess650]

the problem when you say .40 cal. for deer is every one still thinks of prb. I have used .38-40 bullets cast from pure lead in my .40.they weigh 180 gr. makes the .40 a whole different rifle.

Right on Bob. Just a backup statement concerning the power of the .40. I have read true accounts of the buff hunters using the .40/90 claiming it would shoot completely through a buff broadside at 300 yards. That's pretty dog gone powerful by anyone's standards then or now as far as black powder is concerned.

38-40 is 40cal, but typically 175-180gr, so more of a cartridge revolver/repeater cartridge, and no powerhouse. The 40cal Sharps cartridges used bullets from 260gr in the 40-50s, to 370gr in the 40-90s, so completely different animals. 40cal RB barrels are typically 1-48" twist, 38-40 1-36" twist, and the Sharps/Remington/Winchester cartridges more like 1-20" twist to stabilize those long conicals and have them drill through several feet of bison.

If you liken a .451 Whitworth to a .45 Sharps, you're getting closer to apples to apples vs a slow twist front stuffer as compared to cartridge rifle. Admittedly, a patched 180-200gr conical is going to penetrate better than a 93gr PRB as well as retain velocity better. I'm a PRB shooter, so will choose to err on the side of caution when hunting in mountain laurel thicket and use a bigger hammer for deer.

 

[mooman76]

I have 3 32s. All came in 1-48 and shoot good w/RBs. I don't have a 40 but I do have a 36. I think it's a 1-48 too. It's coming along. It didn't shoot so great at first. Totally destroying patches. I smoothed it up some and it shoots better each time I go out.

 

[nkbj]

No one has mentioned barrel twist. With a 50 or 54 caliber a 1 in 48 twist is said to give good accuracy with both a round ball and some conicals. On a 40 caliber gun, is there a twist rate that works well with both prbs and conicals?

I called Bobby Hoyt to discuss making my traditions .36 a .40. He suggested 1-48? I woulda thought slower but per his reputation when I do it I will go with his recommendation.

Oh and we did not discuss prb vs conical. I would likley use prb only

48" twist is patched round ball for sure and won't be bettered. In a .40 bore that's really slow.

 

[nkbj]

You are going to get many of those "depends" answers.

My 40 cal was an off the shelf Colerain barrel - 1:48 with 16 thou rifling (round) - it was a "round ball" barrel.

My 38 is a custom (FCI) that I got cut 1:48, 12 thou, round rifled - again, a roundball barrel.

I did work up all the math for a "conical shooting" longer distance 40 cal but ended up not building it (yet) - discussed the barrel with The Gun Shop (Oregon barrel).

Was going to go with a 1:28 twist 4 thou square rifling because that was "better" for shooting an un-patched or paper patched "conical".

There isn't a variety of conicals for a 40 like their are other calibers - you can even get maxi-balls from T/C for the 32 and 36 - no so for the 40. Likewise, LEE doesn't have an "on the shelf" REAL mold either.

So if you want to shoot conicals for a 40, you are probably going to have to make them yourself or resize pistol bullets.

Unless you plan on a custom "conical" barrel I would abandon that idea with the 40 (as a conical or conical/PRB shooter) and get a 1:48 "roundball" barrel....

Been down that road and found out that if you want to shoot off the shelf molds then have the barrel made .41. Other wise you will need to mechanically fit the bullet to the .40 bore (see below).
Which is a good way to go for accuracy but that's not what most folks are after if it's not quick.


My path ended up being paper patches with the .39 caliber adjustable length mold.

 

[BillinOregon]

I'll have a .40 flint prb rifle before too awful long. Was thinking it might do the trick on an antelope if I can just get close and shoot straight.

 

[crockett]

Well, if a 40 cal has a 1/48 twist and you shoot a 38/40 pure lead bullet- what size groups might you expect at 70 yards? Good enough for a lung shot on deer?

 

[Crewdawg445]

Everything from squirrel to dear and all in between... good enough for me.

 

[George]

I decided to try my .40 for deer back in 2012, shot this buck at 50-60 yards. It went down just as quickly as those shot with my .62 smoothie usually do. One thing I noticed when dressing it was that the wound channel was definitely chewed up more than with the bigger, slower ball.



I knew a couple of guys who used .40s for all their deer hunting, saw one of them drop a 250 lb. hog in its tracks with his.

Spence

 

[Captjoel]

Spence, there is an old saying that says it is better to seek forgiveness than to ask for permission. I just spent most of the morning wondering through your photo website. I am in total awe of all of your pictures! You sir are a living legend and a true historic treasure! Back to this topic.....Your 40 caliber rifle is a beautiful piece of workmanship. Please share what your load for deer hunting is with the 40. Also would like to know all of the details about this rifle. Many thanks to you sir.......Joel

 

[wattlebuster]

Great buck an beautiful rifle Spence :hatsoff:

 

[galamb]

Well, if a 40 cal has a 1/48 twist and you shoot a 38/40 pure lead bullet- what size groups might you expect at 70 yards? Good enough for a lung shot on deer?

Now, I don't and never will advocate hunting with an "inaccurate" rifle or someone who has trouble hitting the side of a barn, but if we put things into perspective for a moment..

The vital area on a deer that presents a broadside shot is about 8" - in that area you have heart, lungs and liver. If you hit a "little" high you take out the spine, a little forwards, the neck - of course a little too far back and you have a gut shot deer that will only be recovered with a lot of tracking.

But, at 70 yards IF you are talking about a rifle that is only capable of making 11 MOA it IS "still within the vitals" - think about that for a moment.

If you and your chosen rifle/shotgun/bow etc can "thread a needle" then you have the option of "slightly obstructed" or "quartering" shots.

If you are up at 4 or 6 MOA (so 6" groups @ 100) you can still be "lethal and ethical" but you just have to wait for that "perfect, unobstructed, broadside shot".

So is the (gun) accurate enough? A bit of range time will tell you that. Are you "accurate enough" - again, range time. Are you "patient enough" or is your whole season "ruined" if you don't shoot something - after answering the first two questions only you can answer the third.

And those answers will tell you if your particular set-up and style are "accurate enough" for taking a deer @ 70 yards....

 

[azmntman]

Well, if a 40 cal has a 1/48 twist and you shoot a 38/40 pure lead bullet- what size groups might you expect at 70 yards? Good enough for a lung shot on deer?

Now, I don't and never will advocate hunting with an "inaccurate" rifle or someone who has trouble hitting the side of a barn, but if we put things into perspective for a moment..

The vital area on a deer that presents a broadside shot is about 8" - in that area you have heart, lungs and liver. If you hit a "little" high you take out the spine, a little forwards, the neck - of course a little too far back and you have a gut shot deer that will only be recovered with a lot of tracking.

But, at 70 yards IF you are talking about a rifle that is only capable of making 11 MOA it IS "still within the vitals" - think about that for a moment.

If you and your chosen rifle/shotgun/bow etc can "thread a needle" then you have the option of "slightly obstructed" or "quartering" shots.

If you are up at 4 or 6 MOA (so 6" groups @ 100) you can still be "lethal and ethical" but you just have to wait for that "perfect, unobstructed, broadside shot".

So is the (gun) accurate enough? A bit of range time will tell you that. Are you "accurate enough" - again, range time. Are you "patient enough" or is your whole season "ruined" if you don't shoot something - after answering the first two questions only you can answer the third.

And those answers will tell you if your particular set-up and style are "accurate enough" for taking a deer @ 70 yards....

Well said, many of my best hunting memories ended "clean". No gut pile. BUT EXCELLENT memories made with family and friends! :thumbsup:

 

[nkbj]

If I was gonna use my Green Mountain .40 Renegade for deer it'd be tempting to see how two balls grouped while running up the charges. There's probably not a limit on how much black that barrel would stand except for what would shoot accurately.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

I would suspect that the settlers carried whatever they had - that is, few of them could afford to upgrade to a bigger bore, and stand the additional expense of extra powder and increased cost- per- shot. I might well be wrong about that.

personally, I'd be hesitant to take down a white tail with my .40, but if it was all I had and my family was hungry, I'd take the best shot I could get. now, those humongous mule deer they have in the Lone Star State, well I suspect that trying a .40 would just irritate the deer ... dunno ...

as a 'small game' caliber, I think the .40 is the cats' meow, but that's just one guy's opinion and it's completely free.


no doubt well worth the cost!


in any event, I wish you well, and Make Good Smoke!

Mine is so dad blame accurate that if Wa state allowed it for deer I wouldn't hesitate to take head shots out to 50 yds for an instant one shot kill, and never look back.

Uhhhhhh”¦”¦”¦”¦.a 40 caliber IS legal for deer in WA State. Refer to page 85 of your 2016 - 2017 Hunting Pamphlet.

 

[George]

Please share what your load for deer hunting is with the 40. Also would like to know all of the details about this rifle. Many thanks to you sir.......Joel

That rifle is the first black powder gun I ever owned. It was bought in 1973, second hand. Built by a local builder named J. D. Thompson. It has a Douglas barrel 13/16" x 42", straight, twist rate 1:66", 8 lands and grooves, rifling depth .012". Double set trigger of the type which must be set to fire. It has mostly been used for squirrels and target shooting, never shot at a deer with it for almost 40 years, until I shot that buck in 2012. A very accurate rifle with any charge I've ever tired in it, from 25 to 70 grains 3F. The load for that buck was 70 gr. 3F, swaged Hornady .395" ball, .012" linen patch, beeswax-lard lube, shot was 50+ yards.

Spence