1842 pistol real or repro?

[jayinvt]

Good afternoon y'all!

Today I picked up what was advertised as a fine condition 1842 U.S contract pistol.

The pistol appears to be the right era and definitely has some use. But when you look at the markings, they don't match other 1842 pistols. It has the right name ( H. ashton) doesnt appear to be the correct font or style. For example, Middtn is not underlined, and is Middt'n on mine.

And a number stamped on the barrel? 145?

Also US is U.S. instead of US as on others.

I'm attaching some pictures for you guys to see if you have the same opinion. I paid a good price for it not realizing it could be a fake, I bought it from an antique dealer who often has really Good firearms that are usually civil war er and check out. This one I didn't double check, But it appeared right in the store. I should have done some more research on it first, especially for what I paid!

Let me know what you think. Thank you so much and I hope to become a valuable member of this forum as I collect more firearms!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

REPRO

Stamping font is wrong...

The lock stamping is uneven
The abbreviation of the town name is not correct
the alignment of the date is incorrect, it should be directly below the C

The lockmaker's name is incorrectly stamped and...,
the gap between the initial, the period and the name is too large
the US marking has periods

Note the markings on these images from two different pistols made years apart:

LD

 

[jayinvt]

Thank you. That's what I was afraid of after I got it home. I bought it at an antique store that has a dealer who sells a lot of these, I've never seen one come from this particular stand that's been bad... So I will contact them even though it's no returns... And at least let them know.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

It still may be a good shooter, and what I wrote is based on a small sample of originals.

LD

 

[vintovka]

Could it be a badly remarked original? If a total fake it would prolly be worth more with worn off markings?

 

[Sam squanch]

If you didn’t give a lot for it , I’d keep it if it had a good bore and the nipple is tight.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Those markings are all wrong, but if the entire gun is a fake, it’s a very good copy.

Why someone would restamp only the lock is a mystery to me. But the barrel markings are wrong, too…

I’d probably try and return it.

 

[jayinvt]

I greatly appreciate the feedback. I contacted the seller and he is willing to take it back and refund me. He's been at it for a long time and still believes it checks out. However -- he is more than happy to refund it and move on. I have purchased other items from him that were all legit.

 

[morehops52]

I've always said that the measure of a business is not if there is a problem, it's how they take care of the problem. Good to hear you're dealing with a good business.

 

[Gun Tramp]

Could it be a badly remarked original?

Yes. Nothing "repro" about it. Just a very worn and remarked original.

 

[vintovka]

Yes. Nothing "repro" about it. Just a very worn and remarked original.

I knew that at a glance but better to ask what you already know for sure in the form of a question.

 

[Poguetx]

I checked both my percussion and flint versions, and the markings of yours are not like either of mine. Very odd they'd go to the trouble of remarking a pistol that's not that rare or expensive. Usually the fakers do it to one that would at least double the value.

 

[vintovka]

Long ago one of the foremost and late american arms collectors showed me a small and very special part of his huge collection of US made pistols and rifles dating back to 1800. This sub set were all made with unmarked or scrubbed parts for sale out of a large European wholesaler. Some parts were never marked rejects and other machine scrubbed all were intended for clandestine sales. Their real worth was in being unmarked. Adding harbor freight font markings destroys this.

 

[Brazos John]

Off topic, but on topic, too:
I have a post-war pistol made in France with Nazi markings.
The New York importer stamped a bunch of them, since the pistol looks like a German-made wartime model.
Full disclosure when I bought it, so no issues for me.
But, yeah, someone with stamps can create lots of confusion!
I'm glad your issue worked out.

 

[vintovka]

Off topic, but on topic, too:
I have a post-war pistol made in France with Nazi markings.
The New York importer stamped a bunch of them, since the pistol looks like a German-made wartime model.
Full disclosure when I bought it, so no issues for me.
But, yeah, someone with stamps can create lots of confusion!
I'm glad your issue worked out.

I have come to point where i can pretty much always spot a fake fast. This especially if patina or serials are "off" Sorting shipping huge containers of unmentionables (c96's) taught me alot. My education was "improved" by studying the dies of master engravers at the long defunct Fedord and briklee operations. The latter left me shaken to point where i suspect ALL markings especially from WW1 on. Even a presentation Springfield officers TD had me going until under a microscope. Current advanced marking and aging process may fool the best of us without carefull study.

 

[Smokerr]

And then there is the good story to go with wrong markings. One of the famous Lugers had that, people were paying 5 to 25K for them as they were authentic.

Turns out it was just assorted parts assembled and a story attached and it went for years with many Luger experts buying into it.

I saw a Bayonet go for $400 and it was a quasi fake. Had the wrong handles but those handles were distinct but the buyer jumped on it.

 

[vintovka]

And then there is the good story to go with wrong markings. One of the famous Lugers had that, people were paying 5 to 25K for them as they were authentic.

Turns out it was just assorted parts assembled and a story attached and it went for years with many Luger experts buying into it.

I saw a Bayonet go for $400 and it was a quasi fake. Had the wrong handles but those handles were distinct but the buyer jumped on it.

After viewing the cased sets of "replica" dies and sample stampings made by a S. American precision tool and tie maker i was shocked. Also a bit scared as up to then had done some extensive evaluation on what i believed were original rare pieces. On one item the prussian eagle on the front of the "red nine" was perfect along with every mark, lettering and numbering. All had been applied just days before to a mixmaster relined wartime c96. Don't get me started on kreighoff lugers or waffenampted m95/34s!!

 

[Poguetx]

A coupe of years ago I bought a Model 12 trench gun off Gunbroker at a great price. Had the ornance bomb and other marks you'd expect. Fortunately, the seller had disclosed he paid for an original, later to find it was faked, which is why he sold it so cheap. I just need to be sure I tag it as such if I ever sell it.