12 lb ball found Lake Champlain

[Mad Professor]

I thought people might find this interesting. A friend was recently canoe camping about Lake Champlain. He found a 12 lb iron cannon ball on the shoreline near the Crown Point area. Anyone have clue on how to date these? The history in this area could place it in quite a range 1600s-1800s.

 

[robinghewitt]

Cannon balls are almost impossible to date, all you can do is look for a battle in that location and guess that's where it came from :hmm:

The solid iron practice shells lobbed out in to the English Channel when they tested the coastal defenses for WW2 are just starting to wash up on the beach.

5 seconds out, 50 years back, I've got one under my desk :grin:

 

[XXX]

Amazing find! I'm not trying to play cop, but your friend may want to check the NY and Vt archaeological laws. I don't suppose it is a problem if found on land outside of a recognized historic area, but if he tries to approach someone in an official curator's capacity they will ask where it was found.

As to speculation on its origin, I would say you would have to look for documentation of the use of 12 pounders. I would guess that this was left behind in an area where fitting out and staging occured rather than being fired at someone. Crown Point had 2 different forts and a long history, but the scale of the fighting in the immediate area was much lighter than further south at Ticonderoga or up north at Plattsburg. There is also the possibility that the ball comes from an abandoned wreck. The 1812 fleet for instance, was left to rot on shore after the war, perhaps there is an undocumented wreck nearby? Whatever the case, it sure is a great find and a good excuse to research the area. I find this an excellent source;
[url] http://www.historiclakes.org[/url]/

 

[Bob Riegl]

:hmm: Since this is quite obviously an archeological find associated with the lake & state (NY or VT), in truth without a permit for this piece, possession could be illegal. Personally I would have reported this find, marked the location and stood by for the powers to be to react. But that's my Puritanical conscience speaking, and your friend should be moved by his/her conscience to do the right thing. I fish my favourite Lake Champlain every year in early June for Smallmouth Bass and Pike---occasionally taking a Muskie. :thumbsup:

 

[rebel727]

:hmm: Since this is quite obviously an archeological find associated with the lake & state (NY or VT), in truth without a permit for this piece, possession could be illegal. Personally I would have reported this find, marked the location and stood by for the powers to be to react. But that's my Puritanical conscience speaking, and your friend should be moved by his/her conscience to do the right thing. I fish my favourite Lake Champlain every year in early June for Smallmouth Bass and Pike---occasionally taking a Muskie. :thumbsup:

I would say that would be a matter of location. If it was on State or Federal land it would be one thing but on private property altogether different.

 

[trailblazer]

I may be wrong but didn't the powder magazine blow up at Fort St Frederic at Crown Point? never know what was sent airborn.
Used to spend a lot of time canoing and camping in the area and found a lot of old square nails by the shore.
I remember reading that the site was also used as a military camp during WWI or WWII but they wouldn't be using round cannon balls.

My uncle happened to find a cannon ball in his driveway in Fort Edward NY. Thought it was a round stone and used to poke at it with his foot till years later it loosened up enough to grab and check out. It was about 400yds from where the fort stood. Don't know if it came from Fort Edward or the earlier Fort Nicholson, our last name.

 

[Bob Riegl]

:grin: Really not to argue the matter, as I could care less, the State of Florida went absolutely bonkers when that old wreck with all the gold was found. When the salvagers arrived in port, instead of a great welcome & huzzahs---the Police and Federal authorities came on board and seized the treasure. The litigation as to who owned the treasure find was set aside until there was a "sharing" plan developed for the retrieved treasure was worked out, it was under State & Federal quarantine. The so-called archeological find is determined by most States & Federal laws in the United States. The State of New York has such Laws on the books, and is empowered to seize any and all archeological finds, until a rightful determination can be made. Not being a Lawyer, I cannot research the law, but will ask a close friend , an attorney, to research said law for me. :thumbsup:

 

[Juice Jaws]

Finders keepers--------- :blah:

 

[wallgunner]

If you find it at a historic site, they mean business. When I was younger I was at Crown Point with my family, down by the waters edge below St. Frederick, and found a bone. Nothing old, just an animal bone. A park Ranger happen to come by and see me with said bone, asked how I was doing and told me that bone belonged to New York State, and to put it back where I found it! I'm not kidding! And neither was he!
I think the English and Americans used 12lbs cannons. Could date to anytime in the 18th century, I doubt it's 17th century. As a reenactor, I've heard millions of stories of people finding artifacts along that area, mostly on private land. As long as they have permission, nothing can be said. Some might say your destroying history by taking it home and not turning it in to authorities. But I don't think it's as bad as a museum shoving it into a box and forgetting about it in the name of historical preservation.

 

[RedFeather]

I've heard millions of stories of people finding artifacts along that area, mostly on private land. As long as they have permission, nothing can be said. Some might say your destroying history by taking it home and not turning it in to authorities. But I don't think it's as bad as a museum shoving it into a box and forgetting about it in the name of historical preservation.

This past year a farm here in Virginia that was the site of a Civil War action invited treasure hunters with metal detectors to come on down. I think they charged $1,000/head. The scroungers spent the weekend digging the place up. Local historians pointed out that it's important to document what's found where. In a case like this, someone finding something as simple as a unit badge or button can help ID exactly what groups may or may not have been in the battle. Don't believe any of these private collectors took the time.

 

[Bob Riegl]

:rotf: Neener, neener, neener--- :blah: I told you so ---nyah!, nyah!, nyah!--- :blah: :rotf:

 

[wallgunner]

Thats the difference between pot hunter/ private collectors and historians. A historian wants to discover what unit was at a particular site for historical reference. A private collector wants to know what unit was their so he knows that his piece is worth something, and the pot hunter wants to know so that he can sell it on ebay and make a killing. I personally have mixed feelings. I know a lot of people who work in the field of history at historic sites and archeological foundations. I respect what they do. But I also know people of look for these pieces on private property, with permission, and totally legal. They find amazing things, and love the history. They don't sell it, just appreciate it for what it is. It's guys who don't obey the law that gives the others a bad name. I guess finders keepers is the rule.

 

[Mad Professor]

Well, I'm not sure exactly where he found it (public/private land), just somewhere near the shoreline. He has since moved to Stitka AK........

 

[GunneyG]

Local historians pointed out that it's important to document what's found where. In a case like this, someone finding something as simple as a unit badge or button can help ID exactly what groups may or may not have been in the battle.

If these historians were really interested in data collection, they could have stood by with each digger to document what was recovered. Sounds like some sour grapes here as well.

 

[Bullmoose]

well I have a 6 solid pounder that I found in Missouri/Arkansas border, Most likely Pea Ridge battlefield leftovers, plus a jar full of old straight razors, and 2 small grape shots about as big as a huge play marble. This was on private land next to an old stone house. plus a few other items too. finders keepers such as: a gun percussion lock, iron blacksmith made horse cleaning hook, tip of a knife made from a file, some type of tin badge?? and many more items