First Flint bore charge not going off.

So picked up a Lyman flint 3 months or so back, getting good spark at the pan, the pan change goes off regular as it should, but the main charge in the barrel doesn't, I am using FFF Swiss in the pan, English flints, which work fine. FF Goex in the bore, bore is clean and dry, patch the bore clean at the start with 35- windshield fluid, then let it seat a bit to make sure its dry. The change in the bore 60 Grs. FF Goex for target. Any positive input will be great help. I've cleaned the bore,warm soap and water taken the flash hole and scrub it, cleaned the area were the breech plug and barrel meets. scathing my head !!!!

Mtman725

When you are swabbing the barrel. Can you hear it breathing?

All that I can suggest is some constriction in the vent or possibly the vent is to high.

When @Mtman725 needs two reliable pan flashes to get the main charge to ignite, there is something in the breech that the heat from the first charge is drying out. Just how dry is the chambered breech of the Lyman rifle? He is using quality components in the 3Fg Swiss powder for the pan and 2Fg Goex in the bore. I am going to speculate that he is using a very wet patch with the windshield washer solution to clean the bore before loading. One theory is that moisture is collecting in the chambered breech and cooling the heat from the pan, preventing the firing of the main charge. A 25 or 30 caliber brush with a cleaning patch wrapped in the bristles should dry the chambered breech. A pipe cleaner through the flash hole should dry the flash channel. Perhaps a patch with 91% rubbing alcohol will get more moisture from the breech and dry out the flash channel. Give the breech a few minutes to dry before loading after the alcohol application. The breech needs to be very dry.

Going back further, when the rifle was last cleaned, did Mtman725 store the rifle with the muzzle down to let excess oils drain from the breech? The excess oils will slightly dry and block the flash channel for the first shots.

Chambered breeches are a great manufacturing device that will allow many different caliber barrels to use the same chambered breech part. The diameter of the bore from the chambered breech to the barrel must be smaller than the smallest caliber barrel used by the manufacturer. However, one cannot use a standard wiping jag to dry the chambered breech and wiping between shots will push fouling into the chambered breech and cause misfires. One must use a loading/wiping jag that is about 0.020 to 0.030" smaller in diameter than the jag used for cleaning. The smaller jag and tinner soft patch will pass over fouling while bunching up to pull fouling from the barrel after firing.

Since the rifle fires on the second attempt, I would spend some additional time to really ensure that the breech and flash channel are dry and clear of any form of obstruction or hinderance to firing.

Mtman725 said:

patch the bore clean at the start with 35- windshield fluid, then let it seat a bit to make sure its dry.

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How long is the ‘bit’ you are letting it dry? I would suggest cleaning with something like alcohol the night before you plan to go shooting, then letting the gun sit muzzle down overnight.

Always lite on everything, a few min. before loading, Lite on the patch with WS fluid then flip it and use the dry side again. To clean anything left patch is clean, bore dry. never listen for breath. But I'll check. I did took .357 45 hard nylon brushes to the breech area, and small patches 30 cal. so I could see the Jagger thu the flash hole. Then good pipe cleaner's. It goes off on the first shot!!!!!

Mtman725 said:

Always lite on everything, a few min. before loading, Lite on the patch with WS fluid then flip it and use the dry side again. To clean anything left patch is clean, bore dry. never listen for it breath. But I'll check.

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You can try variations of the same process, but if your troubles continue, you may have to change things up and try something different. That is why i suggested using alcohol and letting the gun sit muzzle down overnight before your range session.

Hope you figure out what the issue is.

SDSmlf said:

You can try variations of the same process, but if your troubles continue, you may have to change things up and try something different. That is why i suggested using alcohol and letting the gun sit muzzle down overnight before your range session.

Hope you figure out what the issue is.

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I'll start standing it on the muzzle after cleaning. Anything's worth a try.

You need to dry patch before shooting to remove any oil that may be down by the flash hole. No need to patch with any kind of liquid. Insert your touch hole pick and proceed to load. Remove your pick after loading. This assures a good channel to your charge. Keep an eye on your pick because it can get blown out when you push the ball down.

Mtman725 said:

So picked up a Lyman flint 3 months or so back, getting good spark at the pan, the pan change goes off regular as it should, but the main charge in the barrel doesn't, I am using FFF Swiss in the pan, English flints, which work fine. FF Goex in the bore, bore is clean and dry, patch the bore clean at the start with 35- windshield fluid, then let it seat a bit to make sure its dry. The change in the bore 60 Grs. FF Goex for target. Any positive input will be great help. I've cleaned the bore,warm soap and water taken the flash hole and scrub it, cleaned the area were the breech plug and barrel meets. scathing my head !!!!

Mtman725

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I suspect you would be better served by ditching the wiper fluid and removing any oil with a alcohol patch, as mentioned above, or a spritz of brake cleaner down the bore, and, or shot of brake cleaner on a patch to remove all oil, especially in the chamber at the breech. Both dry very quickly, with little to no waiting.

When loading, insert your pick in the vent and hold it in place by wrapping the leather whang tied between the pick an trigger guard, around the back of the frizzen and pull the whang tight enough, from the back side of the frizzen to hold the pick in place, or by closing the frizzen on the pan. Make sure the lock is on half cock and a frizzen stall is in place on the frizzen.

IDK much, but windshield wash fluid has some % of water and other non-alcohol components. That sounds like the wrong thing to use. And why not a dry patch last?

NotDanielBoone said:

IDK much, but windshield wash fluid has some % of water and other non-alcohol components. That sounds like the wrong thing to use. And why not a dry patch last?

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Yes. Alcohol is our friend for removing oil and moisture. I always use it before a shooting or hunting session. I actually pour some down the barrel and then push it out the flash hole When it squirts out the hole I know the vent is clear of oil or moisture. Swabbing the bore with alcohol and then drying with a clean patch really assures me it is not clogged. Even if you don't get all the alcohol out before loading, the charge will not be spoiled. Alcohol swabbing is my last step in cleaning before oiling for storage.Afterceach loading, look through the vent liner to see if powder is visible.

This might sound strange to some but my method of getting my flintlock to fire is this: After I prime the pan, I tilt the rifle towards the right moving the primer powder away from the touch hole. This method makes the pan powder explode sending a flash onto the touch. I seen many people putting too much primer powder covering the hole. This method I never had a flash in the pan ever.

Of course you close the frizen before tilting the rifle or pistol towards the right.

I've had several Investarm [Lyman] flintlocks, my only complaint is the touch hole liner. Failure to fire like this is not unusual. I usually enlarge the hole a little bit, or you can get a quality replacement liner.

Your vent hole may be wet or partly blocked. Maybe you should try to use a vent pick after it's loaded. I use a jumbo paper clip. The diameter is the same size as most vent holes. I also may take @Trot's advice and change the liner if you keep experiencing the flash in the pan. Go with a White Lightning liner.

@david w, the White Lightning touch hole liner has a different thread pitch than the Lyman liner (and most others). They are not an interchangeable part. I do agree that enlarging the touch hole to 1/16" or the #50 or #51 (0.067" or 0.070") numbered drill is often beneficial.

Trot said:

I've had several Investarm [Lyman] flintlocks, my only complaint is the touch hole liner. Failure to fire like this is not unusual. I usually enlarge the hole a little bit, or you can get a quality replacement liner.

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This is what I've been thinking, because after one or two shots the bore should be clean and dry, no matter what 60 grs of FF should dry it out. Do carry a large paper clip, in my bag, I'll look for a replacement,touch hole and going to drill out then one I have.

Grenadier1758 said:

@david w, the White Lightning touch hole liner has a different thread pitch than the Lyman liner (and most others). They are not an interchangeable part. I do agree that enlarging the touch hole to 1/16" or the #50 or #51 (0.067" or 0.070") numbered drill is often beneficial.

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I forgot Lyman is metric. Thank you for pointing that out. I would never go beyond 0.070" for the touch hole.

Mtman725 said:

So picked up a Lyman flint 3 months or so back, getting good spark at the pan, the pan change goes off regular as it should, but the main charge in the barrel doesn't, I am using FFF Swiss in the pan, English flints, which work fine. FF Goex in the bore, bore is clean and dry, patch the bore clean at the start with 35- windshield fluid, then let it seat a bit to make sure its dry. The change in the bore 60 Grs. FF Goex for target. Any positive input will be great help. I've cleaned the bore,warm soap and water taken the flash hole and scrub it, cleaned the area were the breech plug and barrel meets. scathing my head !!!!

Mtman725

Click to expand...

Chambered ( Patent ) breeches have a strong potential to create ignition problems.
They can be harder to clean than traditional breeching arrangements. You definitely need to get a copper bore brush that is a kind of a loose fit in the reduced inside diameter of the antechamber, attach it to your threaded rod end, and twist it around CLOCKWISE a few times in the cleaning process.
Even dry brushing the reduced chamber every few shots is beneficial. Just be sure to tip the barrel down and whack the side of the gun with the heel of your hand a few times to jar out any chunks of fouling you may have dislodged so they don’t get pushed back down the barrel when loading the next shot.
Chambered breeches can obviously be made to work, they just require more work to do so, in most cases.
I swore off of them decades ago. Give me a plain, flat-faced breech plug any time.