Why no 38 or 44?

I will just add one more "maybe" as to why 38 cal is legal in W.VA.

Here is a pic of perhaps one of the most famous rifles build by a (now) W.VA rifle maker.

The rifle was built by J.J. Sheetz. It is a 38 cal, fast twist (1:36) with a 42" tapered barrel that was carried in the Battle of New Orleans.

So maybe simply from a historical point of view it might be difficult for a State to say such a "historically significant" rifle would be "illegal" to use for hunting (????) - just a thought :idunno:



(and who wouldn't want to own/hunt with the above rifle - it's more than sweet)

frogwalking said:

Today's 38 special is .357 caliber. That can be said to be a .36 in reality. Does anyone know why they call it a .38 instead of a .36?

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Actually the cartridge itself is 38 cal. The bullet fits inside and is smaller.

Adding to what Wes/Tex said, The difference between a .36 and a .38 is insignificant and is the difference between a .45 and a .44. A .45 is about as good an all around rifle as any. Get a .40 if .36 is too small for your needs. Caliber designations are and have always been confusing.

Yes but 45 cartridge guns are .452 (45 ACP) .454 (45 Colt) , .457-8 (45-70 Gov't), and most 44's are .427-9, with the exception of the 44 Colt, at .451. Add to that that the 38-40 Win is actually 40 cal, but the 41 Long Colt is actually a .386 cal bullet. :shocked2:

Compared to that morass, ML'ing calibers are quite straight forward.

:thumbsup:

Which 41 colt. Colt made two different sizes of 41 colt

Which reminds me that I'd like to send a 15/16" barrel off to have it rebored to ".38" to shoot with the 200 grain ".41 Colt" hollow base mold. Should be a good shooter with .375 round ball too.

frogwalking said:

Today's 38 special is .357 caliber. That can be said to be a .36 in reality. Does anyone know why they call it a .38 instead of a .36?

Click to expand...

Lets pretend it is the late 1800s, should be doable around this bunch... If I was to offer to sell you the old antique .36 caliber to defend yourself and your family with, or the new improved modern powerful .38, which would you buy? After all, bigger is better, right? And .38 sounds bigger than .36 so it just HAS to be better. The stuff I have read all said it was just a marketing scheme to sell more guns. Some things never change, I guess.

THEN you add the way bullets were sometimes loaded into the cartridges...some of the large historic cartridges the exterior of the bullet overlapped the rim of the cartridge....then add the patent infringement problem, which back then often extended to the name of the cartridge..., so you get Remington 1858's in .44 converted over to use the .46 short (rimfire)..same barrel, just a different cylinder...bullet diameter .456.

LD

With respect to the .45 Colt, the modern standard for groove diameter is .452", and bullets of that diameter are correct. Older arms, or those made by other than U.S. manufacturers should always be slugged or measured so that best bullet fit may be achieved.

The .41 Colt was originally loaded with an outside-lubricated, heeled bullet, and actual groove diameters (and the bullets) averaged ca. .406" diameter - when the manufacturers changed to an inside-lubricated, hollow-based bullet, they made them .386" diameter because that was the original diameter of the heeled shank, and the largest diameter they could seat in the case without increasing the neck diameter of the loaded round. While the modern (sic!) .386" diameter bulleted .41 Colt rounds are not prone to pick up lint and grit, as the original outside-lubed ones were, neither do they shoot as accurately, and this is one reason why the .41 Colt is known as a less-accurate round, though a fairly effective one.

mhb - Mike

shawn_c992001 said:

Just curious why you don't see many calibers of rifles in 38 or 44? Being the state minimum here in WV, a 38 would make a pretty good "one gun".

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I have to agree. .38 could be really nice. With .375 round ball,
with the old Ideal 200 grain hollow base

and perhaps the NEI SWC.

Hmm, flintlock or percussion?

So I presume the paper wrap does the same thing as a patch on a round ball. You can't check the paper patch for holes, burn through etc so how do you determine the right thickness of patch and proper lube. Is it just a lot of shooting till you get the right combination?

The paper shown in the photo is a triple wrap of some pretty darn strong paper. The unwrapping was unreliable. Now I'm trying to find time to out a double wrap with a slightly thicker and weaker paper. Got a few patched up and waiting.
To select a paper for double wrap it's just a matter of bore diameter minus bullet diameter then divided by four. If you want to size after the patch dries then go a little bit thicker.
Sizing after patching can be advantageous in that it compresses the paper wrap and then the required total expansion of the lead is reduced, eliminating another variable. In other words, the less the bullet has to expand to fill the grooves then usually the better off.
Then it's a matter of finding the right load, with or without lube, maybe card wads, maybe even a layer of some filler. Kinda like always with muzzleloading, whatever works!

It's all really quite simple; it eliminates the "gray area" for field officers checking your rifle gun!! Is it the "stamped caliber" or the "diameter of the projectile"? Here in Ohio, we are restricted to "38cal or larger". The understanding is that a 40cal rifle will use a .380 or larger round ball. UNLESS, the barrel is clearly marked "38cal". Here, we are understood to follow the markings of the manufacturer. It will stand-up in court! Even if, you patch up a 370cal ball! Some of our field officers do carry a small dowel with them to check caliber if they deem necessary, even though almost no one here carries a 40cal rifle. I know of only four hunter's, myself included, who actually use a 40cal for whitetails. It's actually a darn fine caliber, "if" you pick your shots. Think bowhunter range! Good Luck, Buzzard