to bed or not to bed, that is the question

[powderhombre]

Back before synthetic stocks came on the scene and gun stocks were made of wood, the rage was to glass bed an action to keep the barrel and action from shifting around when fired. Doing so had dramatic affects on accuracy. What is the opinion on doing this to a Trad. ML? As they are just usually pinned once or twice and secured at the breech it would seem they to would shift around when fired. Would they benefit from this alteration?

 

[ZUG]

If the breach is mated to the stock correctly then it is not necessary. If I was making a hard kicking big bore rifle I would glass bed the breach also a bench rest ML rifle.

 

[WyomingWhitetail]

With good inletting of the barrel it doesn't seem to be a problem. The rear face of the barrel bearing on the rear face of the barrel channel is what takes all the recoil. I have talked to some builders who will put a very thin layer at the breech area and it could be an option to fix a bad inlet. Also even though some of these rifles shoot extremely well most poeple aren't shooting bench rest groups at hundreds of yards and worrying about tenths of inches in group size with them. Open sights and traditional shooting positions probably limit the accuracy of most shooters before the gun does.

 

[Scota@4570]

Years ago I had a TC hawken. The factory barrel inlet was sloppy. I speculated that the barrel was moving in the stock between shots. I glass bedded it. The groups shrank by half. I went from grapefruit size to tennis ball size groups at 100 yards.

A long rifle is a different animal.

 

[hawkeye2]

If you are talking a custom build by an experienced builder I would say probably not. My wife has a rifle by Tip Curtis in which the barrel fits so snug it is difficult to remove from the stock, no need to bed. I do bed my original Civil War guns, no more than 6" of the breech area and it helps. If you are looking at the average import I would say it's a must.

 

[Sam squanch]

To bed or not to bed..... I’ve asked myself that very question at last call many times......

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
For most muzzle loading guns, bedding the barrels most likely has no effect on accuracy. However, it does significantly strengthen the fore stock. Most of my guns have very slim and thin fore stocks and I always paint the barrel channels with a varnish thin coat of Acra Glas epoxy. I found through experience that a thin coat can triple the strength of the thin side walls along the barrels. I discovered this when I built a swivel breech rifle based on Dave Price's swivel breech mechanism. The barrels are soldered together so the side panels making up the fore stock are separate thin pieces with a "V" ridge or rib in the center. That "V" becomes really thin on the side housing the ramrod groove and hole. The first 2 panels I made for that side broke from being fragile. I decided to test a thin coat of Acra Glas on thin wood strips to see if it strengthened them. Using a spring scale to deflect the strips suspended by their ends, I measured force required to break them and Acra Glas increased that force 3 to 10 times. Consequently, I painted the backs of the side panels and had no further breakage problems.

dave

 

[RjSixgun]

Go to the craft store and buy thin sheet cork. Lay this in the barrel channel, it will have the same effect as glass bedding and you can see if there is any benefit.
If you dont like it you can take it out, if you do you can leave it or do a full glass job.
Ive done this to a number of CW muskets and it always worked out very well.

 

[bpd303]

I restored an old German Jaeger and bedded the whole barrel & breech. It made a difference in accuracy and made the added forearm much stronger.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/jaeger-project-rifle.93808/page-3The build pictures were lost but I added some that I could find.

 

[Col. Batguano]

It certainly isn't going to hurt anything. Whether shrinking a 6" group to a 5" group really helps, it's up to you to say. The strength benefit issues as Dave stated above though are worthy of doing it if and only of themselves though.

 

[hawkeye2]

Hi,
For most muzzle loading guns, bedding the barrels most likely has no effect on accuracy. However, it does significantly strengthen the fore stock. Most of my guns have very slim and thin fore stocks and I always paint the barrel channels with a varnish thin coat of Acra Glas epoxy. I found through experience that a thin coat can triple the strength of the thin side walls along the barrels. I discovered this when I built a swivel breech rifle based on Dave Price's swivel breech mechanism. The barrels are soldered together so the side panels making up the fore stock are separate thin pieces with a "V" ridge or rib in the center. That "V" becomes really thin on the side housing the ramrod groove and hole. The first 2 panels I made for that side broke from being fragile. I decided to test a thin coat of Acra Glas on thin wood strips to see if it strengthened them. Using a spring scale to deflect the strips suspended by their ends, I measured force required to break them and Acra Glas increased that force 3 to 10 times. Consequently, I painted the backs of the side panels and had no further breakage problems.

dave

Dave, an excellent post, thanks. Years of experience backed by actual testing, not just a WAG. I have a musket with a stock spliced under the rear band. Even though It is joined by 2 dowels I routed 2 groves spanning the joint, laid nails in them and bedded over all.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I have used bees wax to bed rifles that had loose fitting barrels and find it is simple and effective as well as traditional.

 

[billraby]

I don't like the idea of bedding traditional rifles. I did do it on the current project I am working on. That rifle is a 4 bore and the recoil will be truly enormous. A perfect fit at the breech is essential with something like that. My opinion is bed anything 8 bore or larger and no bedding on anything smaller.

 

[powderhombre]

I am surprised that there is so much positive opinion. One reason I ask is I saw on a web site of a Trad ML builder, and I'm sorry I don't remember who, claims the reason the guns do not shoot well is because they are too tight in the channel. as it disturbs the harmonics of the barrel. so it would seem there are two schools of thought.. who would have guessed! Ha!

 

[bldtrailer]

this gun was bedded buy the builder 6inches from the breach/lock area, hooked breach can't say it helps the grouping but sure doesn't hurt it might be for strength thin area of stock

 

[bldtrailer]

 

[ZUG]

I am surprised that there is so much positive opinion. One reason I ask is I saw on a web site of a Trad ML builder, and I'm sorry I don't remember who, claims the reason the guns do not shoot well is because they are too tight in the channel. as it disturbs the harmonics of the barrel. so it would seem there are two schools of thought.. who would have guessed! Ha!

I think that barrel harmonics in a BP muzzle loader is a bunch of bunk - my opinion . The barrel steel is softer than what is used in rifles that fire high pressure ammo and those BP muzzle loading barrels do not fire bullets any where near the velocity of a modern cartridge rifle.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Here is an example of the thin coat of Acra Glas that I apply. It really is varnish thin and doesn't really tighten up the barrel fit appreciably but it strengthens the wood a lot.

dave

 

[Britsmoothy]

Some of the comments are close and some utter nonsense.
Vibration between barrel and stock has to be as one unit. The moment the barrel can vibrate against the stock accuracy will suffer. Vibration, some call it harmonics, does indeed happen from any firearm.
Snug inletting will negate any need for bedding material. Failing that something to marry full contact between wood and steel most definitely is needed if you want a useful rifle.

 

[Cpt Flint]

The day that I discovered that Brownell’s Acra Glas gel could be stained with the same Laurel Mountain stain used on the rifle stock changed my building technique forever. A most perfect skin tight fit of the bearing surfaces at the breech and tang can be achieved by this method. The barrel can be fitted to the fore stock midway and at the muzzle cap just enough to snug it up and place no stress on the barrel. The stained epoxy will replace chips and fix mistakes. If you are inletting a patchbox for the first time and bed it in epoxy the same color as the wood you may save a three month project. This technique can be used by those of us who possess neither years of experience nor great skill to build an accurate and attractive Longrifle in the spirit of the original. It is not suggested here for the very experienced builder who must maintain originality in the extreme.