History of the patch

[Smokey Plainsman]

Please post a source for this info.

It’s extremely common knowledge.

 

[megasupermagnum]

It’s extremely common knowledge.

Then it shouldn't be hard to post a historical source.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

From the Styrian Armory, Graz Austria ... these are attachments for the ends of ramrods from the mid 1500's...

LD

 

[nkbj]

In the 70's I used spit patch cleaning and spit patch loading because it worked.
Nowadays I use all kinds of stuff to tinker with it and see what else works.

 

[Sam squanch]

I think thin leather or buckskin would have been used more than linen on the frontier . I would think fine woven cloth would be very expensive and hard to find.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Then it shouldn't be hard to post a historical source.

You can find the info yourself, use the googles.

 

[megasupermagnum]

You can find the info yourself, use the googles.

List an author, book, anything, and I'll gladly find it if it exists on the internet. Unfortunately simply searching "how did they clean muzzleloaders in XXXX?" returns conjecture, mostly on forums.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

List an author, book, anything, and I'll gladly find it if it exists on the internet. Unfortunately simply searching "how did they clean muzzleloaders in XXXX?" returns conjecture, mostly on forums.

Ned Roberts “The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle” yes it does describe things how they were done before the 1850s its not just about percussion stuff. I know over the years I’ve ready multiple PERIOD accounts of using tow and worms to clean guns but can’t conjure up each source on a whim. Lots of this stuff just takes a lot of reading to get an idea of things really were done.

 

[megasupermagnum]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

 

[Tumbledown]

Do you have a source to base this on?

Common sense. Tow was used in period for cleaning the bore. Why go through the labor of weaving it, then cutting it into small bits, only to throw it away? That, and tow and tow worms were standard items carried by soldiers.

 

[tenngun]

I think thin leather or buckskin would have been used more than linen on the frontier . I would think fine woven cloth would be very expensive and hard to find.

That certainly makes sense, lots of skin on the hoof but cloth had to be shipped in. When we look at the records what we see is massive amounts of cloth moving west. By the revolutionary war, Indians of the east had almost abandoned deerskin clothing except for moccs and maybe robes. Even robes were replaced largely with blankets.
cloth made up a healthy part of the Santa Fe trail trade. And though we have Miller painting the Mountain Men in skin, the ledgers from the fur company show ready made cloth clothing boots shoes and coats as also making a healthy portion of stuff sent to rendezvous. With this ready made there were lots of bolts of cloth.

 

[Tumbledown]

Here's a good reference for cleaning, and the tools and materials used.

https://www.academia.edu/19696938/_...der_vol_XXI_no_4_September_October_1994_62_66

 

[JCKelly]

Benjamin Robbins wrote in a classy publication known as Proceedings of the Royal Society. It is still around, and one is indeed highly regarded if his work gets published in Proc Roy Soc. When I was in Philadelphia I was able to read the paper Robbins wrote, sometime in 1760, about muskets bursting when the ball was not seated on the powder. Last time I looked full archives of the Royal Society were not available on line, just some abstracts which ignore the good stuff (from our view).
Don't know if the Germans actually invented rifling, but they have been using it since the late 1400's. From at least my own family I am aware that culture lasts forever. If you want to know about early German rifle usage you must find an old German language publication discussing it. The English have made the finest firearm on earth but they never really did fully accept the idea of a rifle. Whatever an Englishman writes about old rifles is gonna be not quite complete. I have traveled a bit in my job. Almost everywhere I went enough people spoke English so I could get by. Germans speak German. Germans write in German. That is about it, outside of a few touristy shops. Even in Pennsylvania they still speak German. Town newspaper had a section in "Pennsylvania Dutch". My "PA-Dutch" girlfriend's mother was a nurse, and the hospital used her to communicate with a German patient (who told her she spoke terrible German).
To learn about old German rifles you gotta read and write German so you can get, from Germany, books or magazines on the subject.
One exception might be the international site, Viking Sword dot com. You gotta join to search the site, and joining can take a couple weeks while they ?approve? you. But some of these guys have serious historical knowledge.

 

[Woodwright]

Please post a source for this info.

You will find this paper on page 328 of :New Principles of Gunnery: Containing the Determination of the Force of Gunpowder, and Investigation of the Difference in the Resisting Power of the Air to Swift Ad Slow Motions. ... By Benjamin Robins, ... with an Account of His Life and Writings, by James Wilson, M. D." published in 1805. You can read or download that paper at the following link: New Principles of Gunnery: Containing the Determination of the Force of Gunpowder, and Investigation of the Difference in the Resisting Power of the Air to Swift Ad Slow Motions. ... By Benjamin Robins, ... with an Account of His Life and Writings, by James Wilson, M. D

 

[Lakeman]

I'd like to point out that early Americans fired their weapons fairly seldom compared to blackpowder shooters today. A Longhunter who touched off a round in the deep woods was notifying everyone within earshot of his presence and inviting unwelcome attention. He also had only the powder, lead, patching, and flints/caps he could reasonably carry whether on his person or pack horse. The same held true through the Mountain Man era although we do have better written records in the form of inventories taken to rendezvous. I average a trip to the range once a week. I'll fire an average of 50 or so shots per session. I'm willing to bet that I fire more rounds per range session than the average man did in a year pre-1800's. It becomes easier to envision cloth patching when the amount being used is small.

The OP is seeking written proof of how things were done and what they were done with a couple of centuries ago. Such rock-solid proof can be hard to find. That has led some of our members to engage in "experimental archeology". They create as nearly as possible the life our forefathers lived and the items they used. Not rock-solid proof but pretty darned likely.
John

 

[megasupermagnum]

Here's a good reference for cleaning, and the tools and materials used.

https://www.academia.edu/19696938/_...der_vol_XXI_no_4_September_October_1994_62_66

This is gold. Well worth a read. Thank you.

 

[rafterob]

As regards to finding appropriate documentation, Google often falls short. I have had luck searching actual library databases. If they have the source in electronic format great. Sometimes they have the hard copy and you can have it transferred to your local library if within the same state.

 

[Intosomthin]

Hi,
The documentation you seek is the paper by Benjamin Robbins, mathematician and engineer to the East India Company, read to the Royal Society in 1747 titled " Observations of the Nature and Advantage of Rifled Barrel Pieces". Robbins was the first to correctly deduce how rifling and spinning bullets improved accuracy and precision of shooting based on physics rather than the myths and legends often cited by earlier authors. In the paper he describes loading over sized bullets without patches and hammering them home and loading with thin greased leather or cloth patches and undersized bullets. The latter method he attributes to Swiss and German shooters. That Swiss and German gun culture was the source of our American long rifles, hence the practice of patching the bullet became the normal method of American riflemen. There were not many rifles in England in the 17th and early 18th centuries and many of the rifles were breech loaders using bullets larger than the bore. However, British rifle shooters also shot muzzleloaders and either loaded with a patched ball or hammered an oversized ball down the bore. I am not sure the long barreled rifles that became popular in America would be feasible without greased patches. Tow was mostly used to "scour" bores and ramrods usually were made with tow worms on the narrow end if any ferrule was attached.

dave

1st of all, Hi,
You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge. Im a book worm, internet reasearch junkie. I cant set on the same bench as you brother. Be well

 

[oreclan]

I always kind of assumed oil was a given. If you were hunting, you were then in possession of animal fat for oil. The cleaning is what really gets me. I have yet to see anything describe at all how these rifles were usually cleaned. I've seen where many carried a "wiping stick" in addition to their usual ramrod on their gun. Maybe they just used the same patches they loaded balls with? My question is did they just rinse out the barrel and oil? Did they run a couple wet patches through and oil? Did they do the water pumping method?

That picture of the supposed kit for David Cooke is interesting. That is just another thing that shows all that was old, is new again. Clearly he liked a ball board. So it seems whether you cut at the muzzle, use pre-cut, or use a ball board... you are right. I really like how he made the knife sheath built into the bag's strap. That looks like a good way to do it.

Tow was used to clean the bores of muzzleloaders. As Judy from Prickets Fort once told us the frontier was cloth poor.

 

[arcticap]

It becomes easier to envision cloth patching when the amount being used is small.

There must have been a time when 99% of people weren't using cloth patches yet.
They were firing smoothbores using whatever wadding they could find that worked.
A book reference doesn't provide statistics reflecting all the different loading practices being used.


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