Planning on getting a 1842 Smoothbore next year... How do .69 cal. minie balls shoot in them?
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1842 Springfield
- Thread starter nightwolf1974
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Minie' Balls in a 0.69 caliber smoothbore?
Not well. The Minie' ball needs to spin to stabilize. Can't happen i a smoothbore. The Minie' ball also needs a precise fit to the bore. Most will be quite undersized to the bore of an 1842 Springfield.
Not well. The Minie' ball needs to spin to stabilize. Can't happen i a smoothbore. The Minie' ball also needs a precise fit to the bore. Most will be quite undersized to the bore of an 1842 Springfield.
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Lyman's .685 Minie weighed 730 grains and began the slogan "Just say no." Did you mean "Smoothbore" or "Springfield," or both?
Bob McBride
54 Cal.
Poorly, but man will it clang a steel silhouette at 30 yards....
For those who don't know, the original Springfield 1842 was a smoothbore, .69 caliber, percussion musket. It was the last .69 caliber musket and the first musket using the percussion system distributed to the Army. It was also the first musket to be made at both Springfield and Harpers Ferry Armories with fully interchangeable parts. There was a total of over 275,000 made.
There was no rear sight on these muskets and the front sight was built into the front barrel band.
During the years 1856-1859, 14182 of these were rifled by Springfield and Harpers Ferry. Of these, about 10,000 were fitted with rear sights.
Special, .69 caliber Minie' Balls were made for these but because of logistics, support of the rifled muskets in the field, was not good.
Here's a picture of my Springfield smoothbore made 1845.
There was no rear sight on these muskets and the front sight was built into the front barrel band.
During the years 1856-1859, 14182 of these were rifled by Springfield and Harpers Ferry. Of these, about 10,000 were fitted with rear sights.
Special, .69 caliber Minie' Balls were made for these but because of logistics, support of the rifled muskets in the field, was not good.
Here's a picture of my Springfield smoothbore made 1845.
Bob McBride
54 Cal.
An interesting addition to that solid synopsis from Zonie was that the 1842 was originally designed and built with a barrel thick enough to rifle some time after they were put into the field (as the OD knew it was the thing of the future) so the original smooth bores, and those that were never converted, have noticeably heavier than usual barrels. Both of the copies I’ve owned had been rifled.
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Nightwolf,
If you want to shoot .69 minies be aware, the reproduction 1842's can have significant variations in their bore diameters. If you get one by Armisport (such as mine is) you could very well end up either having an existing mold modified to be large enough in diameter, or else having to paper patch the bullets to bring them up in diameter or else getting a mold made to the diameter you need. Mine needs 0.695" diameter bullets.
Mine is the 33" barrel version.
And I love it.
If you want to shoot .69 minies be aware, the reproduction 1842's can have significant variations in their bore diameters. If you get one by Armisport (such as mine is) you could very well end up either having an existing mold modified to be large enough in diameter, or else having to paper patch the bullets to bring them up in diameter or else getting a mold made to the diameter you need. Mine needs 0.695" diameter bullets.
Mine is the 33" barrel version.
And I love it.
I'm getting the smoothbore version from DGWs,(next year) and was seeing what the possibilities were for a broad variety of projectiles to shoot from it.
I'm getting the smoothie because it has a more appealing (for me) look to it, and I can shoot either a military paper cartridged RB, PRB, or buckshot from it.
I'm getting the smoothie because it has a more appealing (for me) look to it, and I can shoot either a military paper cartridged RB, PRB, or buckshot from it.
I bought an 1842 Smooth Bore from a Civil War Sutler friend of mine and it is a lot of fun. Haven't done live fire with it yet though.
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And dont forget buck n ball! I have a model 1842 with a smooth bore. I enjoy shooting paper cartridges with ball in mine. I havnt worked up the best load for it yet though. The original cartridge contained 110 gr. Of musket powder. The .69 caliber minie cartridge contained 70gr. Thats alot of powder and lead. This is my favorite service musket. As was said, it was the first U.S musket made with interchangeable parts, the first percussion musket(I think), and the last smooth bore musket. A real transition piece.
Doc Ivory
45 Cal.
The 1842 Harper's Ferry is the favorite piece in my collection.
My is rifled.
It shoots round and minnie pretty well but don't expect perfect groupings.
My is rifled.
It shoots round and minnie pretty well but don't expect perfect groupings.
DaveC
32 Cal.
I've got an 1851 rifled and sighted Model 1842, with the barrel relined to .687" so I can shoot .685" Minié/Burton bullets. I also have a spare smooth-bore barrel for .670" round balls. The issue round ball was .65, so .670 is a tight fit. The state of North Carolina issued out some mysterious Wilkinson-type bullets for the smooth bore, misnamed "Nessler" bullets. I have a mould for these as well.
I have recently read an account of Iowans in the Civil War being issued smooth-bore .69 caliber muskets, and then drawing ammunition for them. They discovered that they had been issued the 730-gr. .69 caliber Minié bullet, even though it was not compatible with the smooth-bore. So best believe that it happened. A smooth-bore 1842 is in effect a sweet 16-gauge shotgun. As you say, it can be fired with authentic paper cartridges, with powder and shot, used as a shotgun, loaded with buckshot (a favorite of PoW guards and sentry-duty), a tighter fitting patched round ball for smooth-bore shooting--which has golf beat as sports go in my humble opinion--or with the buck-and-ball cartridge: 1 .65 cal. lead round ball topped with three x .310" buckshot. Have fun with your 1842. The 730-gr. is too much gun for me, so I'm using a light charge of about 45gr FFFg and a mere 585-gr. wadcutter Minié in mine.
As you may have read, the Model 1842 was the very first machine in the world that was parts interchangeable across factories. The Model 1819 Halls rifle in Harpers Ferry was the first firearm with interchangeable parts, but with the Model 1842, pieces and parts and components from Harpers Ferry or Springfield could be used interchangeably, which was quite startling to Europeans at the time... The "American system of manufacture."
I have recently read an account of Iowans in the Civil War being issued smooth-bore .69 caliber muskets, and then drawing ammunition for them. They discovered that they had been issued the 730-gr. .69 caliber Minié bullet, even though it was not compatible with the smooth-bore. So best believe that it happened. A smooth-bore 1842 is in effect a sweet 16-gauge shotgun. As you say, it can be fired with authentic paper cartridges, with powder and shot, used as a shotgun, loaded with buckshot (a favorite of PoW guards and sentry-duty), a tighter fitting patched round ball for smooth-bore shooting--which has golf beat as sports go in my humble opinion--or with the buck-and-ball cartridge: 1 .65 cal. lead round ball topped with three x .310" buckshot. Have fun with your 1842. The 730-gr. is too much gun for me, so I'm using a light charge of about 45gr FFFg and a mere 585-gr. wadcutter Minié in mine.
As you may have read, the Model 1842 was the very first machine in the world that was parts interchangeable across factories. The Model 1819 Halls rifle in Harpers Ferry was the first firearm with interchangeable parts, but with the Model 1842, pieces and parts and components from Harpers Ferry or Springfield could be used interchangeably, which was quite startling to Europeans at the time... The "American system of manufacture."
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14 gauge, actually. I found thin card, nitro, and cushion wads at TOW.
Given the fact that quite a few thinner barreled 1816s were converted to percussion and rifled, I'm not sure the the often claimed theory about the reason for the heavier 1842 barrel holds water. The 1842's were rifled at a time when the 1855 was coming into service and the merits of the rifled barrel and minie ball had been proven. Considering that the minie wasn't invented until 1849 and saw its first use in the Crimean War in the 1850s, it's hard to believe that the Army had that must foresight.
Good point.
Bob McBride
54 Cal.
The reason for the thicker walled barrel for future deep groove rifling is clearly documented if I remember correctly.
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JCKelly
45 Cal.
There are those who shoot smoothbore muskets with round balls in competition. Some military repro site must discuss this. Search americanlongrifles .org they had quite a session in '09 about shooting smoothbore w round ball. As I recall, to get best accuracy with a round ball one dimples the ball, as by rolling it between two rasps. Disremember exact explanation but it is aerodynamic, and relates to why golf balls are dimpled. Not intuitively obvious why. Something about breaking up the boundary layer of air about the flying ball.US International Muzzleloading team uses 89 grit sandpaper on their musket balls.
At least do use ROUND balls, not minie, you'll have a couple hundred years experience behind you.
At least do use ROUND balls, not minie, you'll have a couple hundred years experience behind you.
Bob McBride
54 Cal.
JC, counterintuitive is right. Along with the golf ball example it is also similar to why, against all common sense, a pickup truck gets better gas mileage with the tailgate up than it does with it down. The air is overpressured in the bed and it acts more like it has a flush mount camper shell where the tailgate open allows for severe turbulence in the bed disturbing the aerodynamics. 'Proven' by Mythbusters....if I remember right.
