Using Nitro Powder?

[Norinco]

Does anyone use modern bullet propellent for muzzleloading guns? I have heard "no" for that so many times.

I have heard that in Europe, they do use it for their muzzleloaders and call it "nitro" since it's the nitrocellulose based stuff. They do that to reduce smoke at indoor ranges. Obviously they can't use it at a 1:1 ratio like you can with blackpowder substitutes. Is that true?

Since modern powder is much more powerful, it must be dosed weight. I've done some reloading. I would think that you can use nitro safely for muzzleloaders if you get the chamber pressures right.

Does anyone do this? Thanks

 

[gordy]

To give you the quick and short answer NO !!!

 

[Norinco]

But for what reason?

 

[David W.]

Not no, but HELL NO! Modern powder produces way too much pressure in a barrel it was NEVER designed for. If you use modern powder na muzzleloader, you will make the barrel explode, injuring and possibly killing yourself and anyone else around.

Once again, HELL NO!

 

[Norinco]

But it is possible to use a load of modern powder that produces a low pressure.

 

[David W.]

But it is possible to use a load of modern powder that produces a low pressure.

What part of no do you not understand?

 

[Homesteader]

I may be completely wrong here, but I believe it's because of the quick pressure spike. Our muzzleloaders are designed to accommodate a more gradual pressure increase that's delivered by blackpowder and the substitutes. Modern smokeless increases pressure very very quickly. The difference between a punch and a push.

Again, I'm not sure that's entirely correct. Anyone with knowledge care to chime in on the technical specifics? (I'm curious now myself.)

 

[Norinco]

The no needs a reason.

I'm not going to try this. I'm just wondering if it's possible. If lab were to tell me what loads produce safe pressures, then I may try this.

 

[gordy]

Wasn't trying to be a wise guy , but just wanted to get your attention ! There is no way that you can safly use a nitro based powder in a muzzleloader . Savage Arms at one time made a " muzzleloader " I think was called model 10 on their bolt action center fire rifle. It was touted to be able to use smokeless or nitro powder , but you had to insert a brass cup in the chamber to use the nitro. This in fact gave it a cartridge as such and the cup obfuatrd as a cartridge case would. The preasure curve s between Black Powder and Nitro is entirely different. The Savage model was an attempt to qualify a bassicaly center fire gun as a muzzleloader to get by the regulations for BP seasons. All of the incidents of a muzzleloader exploding that I know of , was found to involve the use of nitro powder. DON"T DO IT !!!!!!! :nono:

 

[David W.]

The no needs a reason.

I'm not going to try this. I'm just wondering if it's possible. If lab were to tell me what loads produce safe pressures, then I may try this.

It's a good thing you are not, otherwise I would suggest writing your will first. Modern powder, any modern powder (even a so-called low pressure powder) will develop a pressure that far exceeds the ability of a bare barrel to withstand. The barrel will explode, causing you serious injury or death and to those near you.

 

[Norinco]

That makes sense, the cartridge expanding does absorb a good amount of energy in a cased ammunition gun.

What about the European ranges? I remember reading the website of an English gun club. They mention some of their cap and ball revolvers used a tiny bit of "nitro." Whatever they used, it wasn't a one to one replacement of blackpowder, since they said it used a tiny amount so care must be taken to prevent double loading.

 

[rafterob]

A friend just sent me an email about a week ago with pictures of one such "modern" muzzleloader supposedly designed to accept smokeless powder. The barrel was split from the breech almost all the way to the end. The guy's hand (or what was left of it) had multiple lacerations and was missing most of the thumb. He was resting his hand on top of the scope and that is what saved his hand from further injury. So, if you want to go ahead and try, at least have a friend ready with a camera so we can all see why the answer is "NO".

 

[poordevil]

Try it and report back to us....or have someone do it for you :rotf:

 

[gordy]

In Europe they may use a propellent that was sold in the early days of " smokeless powder " , I think it was a different formula then the Nitro cell. based powders we use today. Jf I'm not mistaking it was aimed at shooters who had demascus barreled shot guns. IIf you are looking for a propellent that has no sulphur oder or generates little smoke , dosn't leave large amounts of residue, one of the subs called clean shot may be the answer . :hmm: If you decide NOT to heed the advice given you here :surrender: Have a next of kin or friend post the day of your demise , and we'll take a collection for floweres . :wink:

 

[Billnpatti]

Homesteader hit the nail on the head. Modern smokeless powders are a progressive burning powder. That means that as the pressure increases, the burning rate increases. This results in the peak pressure being reached much faster than it would with black powder.
This sudden increase in pressure, even though it is a decreased load, will cause the metal of muzzleloading rifles to fracture. In America, this fracture results in the barrel disassembling. I have no idea what happens in Europe or what kind of guns they are loading this "Nitro" powder into but here in the good old U.S.of A. we never, let me emphysize that, we NEVER shoot a smokeless powder in a gun designed to shoot black powder. I understand that you have no plans to do so, but if you are ever around anyone who wants to try it, strongly warn the person against it and LEAVE THE AREA IMMEDIATELY!!!

 

[Stayangry]

Norinco is correct, I believe.

I recall that a particular British gunsmith (name escapes me) has created muzzleloading revolvers that use regular smokeless powder, the point being that they save on cleaning. Ignition was via shotgun primers.

However, the idea did not take off and the whole thing struck me as a bit of a lash-up.

Needless to say, one should never, ever use smokeless in a weapon designed for blackpowder. If it says "blackpowder only", it really really means it.

 

[Norinco]

Once I'm no longer a broke student, I will do some destructive testing (partly as an excuse to blow some stuff up). I'll get a used in-line and load it with modern powder to low pressures. Then I'll strap it to a tire, tie a string around the trigger, and set it off from behind a tree. I'll repeat until it blows the gun apart or I get bored.

 

[R.M.]

WHY???????

 

[Norinco]

I like chemistry, I like guns, I like testing stuff.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Homesteader hit it right on. Mess around like you're thinking and watch the barrel (where the nitro load is spiking i.e.at the highest pressure) explode at the exact spot where your left hand holds it up. Watch your fingers fly through the air, feel the blood and hot steel bits spattering your face, hear the dull but somehow loud ringing in your head and nothing else, see the other people around you moving in slow motion. Then it all swooshes to the present NOW and you find yourself in an overcharged hectic hell of a regretful jam, sonny!!!!!!!!!!!