Research ?

[Trench]

Jeff Jaeger co-wrote the John Small book. I got to talk to him at Friendship a couple of years back. He's in the midst of finishing an Indiana Gunmaker's book. He said he was still at least 5 years away from completion back in 2010.

 

[hanshi]

Not saying this to :stir: but just couldn't help but notice both rifles have fairly hefty wrists, especially the one on the right.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Not saying this to :stir: but just couldn't help but notice both rifles have fairly hefty wrists, especially the one on the right.

I beg to differ,

Looking at the lock panels on both rifles you will notice that the wrists are very slender and directly related to the size of the barrel used.

The left hand rifle has a more defined wrist as it travels back into the buttstock, and a much smaller barrel as well.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Its in the details.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Thanks for posting those pictures, I would think that the left hand rifle will be quite handy and well balanced.

 

[rabjr]

Not exactly fair to compare two different gun styles Hanshi. Unless I'm wrong I don't see either one being an Early Lancaster...certainly not a TVM Early Lancaster...

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

If you look at that right hand rifle you will notice that that lock is massive compared to the left hand rifle, but both wrists look very much in proportion to the locks and barrels.

 

[Trench]

I have absolutely no skin in the "heftfullness" of rifle wrists argument, but I do think the one on the left is quite slender. The rifle on the right, which belonged to Col. Vigo of present-day Vigo county, looks heftier to me. That poor rifle has been chopped all to hell. Jack Brooks made a reproduction of this rifle in what is his interpretation of what it may have looked like originally. Quite nice.

 

[Trench]

Thanks for posting those pictures, I would think that the left hand rifle will be quite handy and well balanced.

Okay, so I did notice the lock panels on these two examples just slightly extend past the locks. What would be the reason to have a larger lock panel? Is it simply a time saver? Taste?

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Thanks for posting those pictures, I would think that the left hand rifle will be quite handy and well balanced.

Okay, so I did notice the lock panels on these two examples just slightly extend past the locks. What would be the reason to have a larger lock panel? Is it simply a time saver? Taste?

I am really not in a position to speculate as to why the panels are left large, but you would be hard pressed to find many originals with large lock panels.

I have struggled with the same issues and have come to realize that its a universal architectual flaw in most pre-carved stocks.

It became really apparent with the blank I am doing now, I flubbed it by tracing a generic pre-carve onto the blank and cutting it out with the band saw, I just transfered the poor design right onto the blank.
:slap:

Thing is I am learning each time, so I have to power thru this one and try to correct it on the next.

 

[hanshi]

You stand corrected. :grin:

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

?

 

[Idaho Ron]

I would think this thread would be better in the firearms research forum. Ron

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I disagree,

this thread is less about the specific research of a particular object and more about the general aspect of research and how it applies to the knowledge we have on the longrifle.

 

[Rod Lassey]

I'll add my two cents----for firearms of the fur trade era, used specifically in the fur trade, I'd recommend:

Firearms of the Fur Trade by J.Hanson
Great Gunmakers for the Early West by Gordon
Trade Guns of the Hudson Bay Company by Gooding
The French Trade Gun in North America by Gladysz
For Trade & Treaty by Gale

There are a number of others dealing with firearms of the fur trade, but those are the ones with the clearest photos, dimensions, etc., that would be helpful to the builder.

Over the past year, I did the same as Trench---did the research, collected appropriate parts, and turned it all over to a builder I trusted to get it right. As a result, I'm the proud owner of an early (1810-20) Deringer rifle, that should be very correct for the Rocky Mountain fur trade.

By the way, museum hands-on work is invaluble. I've been down to the Museum of the Fur Trade a number of times, and Jim Hanson has been generous enoug to let me pull guns from the cases and 'get a feel' for them.

Rod

 

[tg]

I had pretty much the same library Zonie mentioned when I was studying the Longrifle, i do think the key is to always look to the originals not someone elses interpretation, and this "early" thing has become a very non definitive term so is really meaningless in some cases, seldom do we see any dates or referemnces given for any "early" gun folks or vendors come up with, I think the general suggestion is that they are good from the F&I period but few I have seen would be much earlier than 1775 from what I have gathered from my own research and that of others who have commented on this topic. while there are few realy early guns surviving that are dated there are some geranly accepted traits that can be used to make a good speculitive stab at one but these are seldom followed from what I have seen. In general there is a better chance of getting a good well researched gun if one does the homework themselves rather than leave it to many of the mid level shops

 

[Idaho Ron]

So researching rifles does NOT belong in the research forum? Why have a research forum? Ron

 

[Zonie]

The Research forum is there to show/discuss original firearms that were made prior to 1864.

Discussing discussing is not on the agenda in that forum.

 

[Idaho Ron]

SO if someone wanted to discuss, discussing research on guns in the research forum you would move it here??? Ron

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

You stand corrected. :grin:

I would appreciate it if you would expound upon tthis statement if you could spare the time.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Thanks Zonie,

When I read thru the various headers, several times, about where to place this thread I came to the very same conclusion.
:hmm: