Tweesdad said:Believe me, I am not worried in the least. I do believe that there is a place for PRB loads. At the range. However, that place is not in MY rifle when hunting. I will use the thing to hunt game that can hunt back. I have taken Moose, Brown Bear, Black Bear, and Boar with my scoped Encore, and now want to try something a bit more challenging. The Hawken, with iron sights seems to be more of a challenge to me.
For whatever it's worth, I think that if you are hunting Bear or Boar, the ability to reload rapidly is a safety requirement. I have no need to impress anyone at the range, as most the people who shoot at my club think as I do. There is an awfully big difference between a shot that kills, and a shot that stops. Nothing survives a bullet through both lungs or a heart shot, but they can keep on coming till they drop. A "rapid" reload with a muzzleloader is still really slow, but I try to get it done as fast as I can.
So, it appears that we have agreed to disagree. I have no problem with that. I respect your opinions, and I hope you will extend me the same courtesy.
Good Shooting to all.
If you have the slightest idea that you can load a ML in time to keep a brown bear from getting to you it is obvious you are delusional.
So far as stopping one. I would take a 16 to 10 bore hardened round ball over one of your small diameter conicals any day.
Before getting into discussions of this sort you should do some reading. A hardened 15 gauge ball fired with a 137 grains of powder would penetrate an Indian Elephants head from side to side according to James Forsythe who lived and hunted in Africa.
16 bore rifles, using a one ounce ball .662 in diameter. Were considered minimum for dangerous game by Forsythe.
If you read John Taylor's "Pondoro" you will find an account of his using a 10 bore smooth to kill a number of African Elephant and Rhino when his shipment of ammo became lost. All one shot kills with a hardened ball and 6 drams of powder (167 gr).
The problem with modern MLs is that people are trying to do things with bore sizes that are too small, at least by British standards. I have hunted elk in areas populated with G. Bears with a 50 cal ML with a RB. Would I intentionally hunt a G.Bear with this, no.
I just built a 16 bore flintlock using Manton hardware. I have wanted one for a long time and I will in all likelyhood kill a Grizzly or brown Bear with it in AK since both my son and Father are residents there. I will use a hardened ball, probably wheel weights and 140 gr of FFG Swiss.
So far as "stopping" an animal. This takes interruption of the nervous system. Nothing else is reliable.
The bottom line is this. People with a financial stake in promoting "high performance MLs" have been maligning the patched rb for quite some time 25-30 years. Idiots like Toby Bridges leading the way. Thus we have a rather considerable body of "knowledge" out there that tells people the the RB is no good. Its BS. Primarily put out to sell people rifles that are "new and improved".
The same type drivel will tell shooters that the 30-06 (for example) is inferior to this or that new cartridge that when carefully checked may prove to be at best its equal. But that does not sell advertising for Guns and Ammo or any of the other slick paper magazines so they print drivel so people will buy a new Remington or Ruger etc that does nothing different than there old rifle.
It does keep the Robertson-Pitman funds rolling in and keeps the manufacturers in the black. But the actual BS designed to sell the product is, well BS.
Dan