post hawkin here

I would have to vote for the Hawken Shop Blueprints. They show all the little details that are missed by other draftsman of Hawken blueprints. The Hawken Shop blueprints were done by Don Lauer with Art Ressel from an original in Art's collection at the time. There is a lot to be said about Wayne Roubideau's drawings too. He had a lot of measurements and details in his 6 page set of drawings that Don L. left out. I also have a blueprint of an early Hawken by the Log Cabin shop that points out a lot of differences in the details between the earlier J&S Hawkens and later S. Hawken rifles. I have yet to get the blueprints from TOTW. So I can not say one way or the other on them. The description of the drawings in the TOTW catalog looks very interesting though. I may have to get them too. :grin: BTW, if you haven't ordered your Hawken kit yet, you may want to check out Don Stith's Carson Hawken Kit. It ain't the same as TOTW Carson kit. Don made his from copying the original Carson Rifle verbatim. I mean down to the gnats hiney little teensey weensey teeninesy detail. :thumbsup:
Don

 

[Sully]

Thanks for the info.I have seen the TOTW plans and was not to impressed by them.That is good to know about the kits Don Stith sells.I am still leaning to the Hawken Shop. I have one of theirs and would like another as close as possible to it. My son and daughter enjoy shooting and I thought it would be good for them to each have one (at a point waaaay into the future).

 

[faw3]

Thanks Reddog and Cooner, I'm sure for a production made rifle some things had to be left out like it's a 1" barrel not 1 1/8 tappering down ect. I cant really find a ad from Ithaca that goes into that , Navy Arms ran those. What really stands out on it is the hand work, (ITHACA) inletting ect. Reading these old 60s and 70s MB I cant get over how many people made these. Some "kits are 99% and look really good for 4 to $500. The good old days. I think all mine needs is another barrel 54 or 58 36" long to at least a bunch like the Carson ( and Baird did get in on it he ran a great series in MB 67 to the start of 68) Thanks a bunch Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Swampman]

TOW made a kit called the "Curly Maple Hawken." I believe it used the same parts as the Sante Fe/Ithaca Hawken. I built one and it was awesome looking. I wish I still had it.

 

Thanks Fred, I'll have to look through my stacks and see if I can find those issues.
Don

 

[faw3]

It ended with Jan and March of 68, why 2 endings? Hey John you got pics yet?? Fred :hatsoff:

 

[reddogge]

Back in 1977 the Ithaca was "cutting edge" on Hawkens. I don't recall too much out there back then. There were plenty of Thompson Centers and custom guns but that was pretty much it as I remember. Not near the selection we have today with kits, part, and accurate drawings.

 

Now that's a gun, I'm impressed!!

 

[faw3]

It seems that everyone built a Hawkin of some kind in the 60s thru 80 , at a wopping cost of 300. You could get about any kind of rifle back then, it looks like about a 15 to 1 gun ads from back then to now. Braid has so much info in just a few pages I have to get his first book now if I can find it, Jacob made the Hawkin(not named) from 1815 to 22, The J+S from 22 to 49, and it really took off then. Again Braid gives names of people that made the Hawkin what it waw IS, Samuel,his son William,William Watt, Gemmer, Sams partner 1854/58 Campbell all of them made some part of it what have today Yes the BUG has got me. I've :yakyak: enough you need to read all this stuff if our into these rifles. Fred :hatsoff:

 

The Ithacas were and are very nice rifles. I actually had the priveledge of shooting and hunting with the serial #1 Ithaca Hawken rifle. Harvested my largest racked deer with it to boot. Two things I noticed off the get go concerning the Ithaca. It was made with a straight one inch barrell rather than a 1 and 1/8 tapered to 1 inch and the nose cap was made of aluminum rather than poured pewter or steel.

 

[ptk1126]

Don

I am sure that Cecil Lamphere was likely the
owner, but doubted that he was the builder as he
would only have been 22 years of age in 1926.

The auction company stated that the rifle was
dated 1926 but I have not fully disassembled to
see if it is on the rifle itself. It could have
been documentation. I just don't remember after so
long. I still have the tag from the auction which
states: "Early reproduction Hawken dated 1926".

I have posted a picture of the name on the top
flat of the barrel as well as a better picture of
the side panel at

[url] http://photobucket.com/albums/c232/ciotog/Hawken 54 cal/[/url]

Paul

 

[faw3]

I need to get a hold of one of Braids books and ck the barrel thing out I thought they (ithaca) made the barrel 1" because of cost to make the tappered barrel, but in old MBs and another book it said something about a 1"x 30" or 31" barrel? So now I'm kind of wondering if 1" wasnt right?? Will someone put up the Hawkin shops web please. Thank you all much Fred :hatsoff:

 

[davy]

I need to get a hold of one of Braids books and ck the barrel thing out I thought they (ithaca) made the barrel 1" because of cost to make the tappered barrel, but in old MBs and another book it said something about a 1"x 30" or 31" barrel? So now I'm kind of wondering if 1" wasnt right?? Will someone put up the Hawkin shops web please. Thank you all much Fred :hatsoff:

Here you go Fred...
[url] http://www.thehawkenshop.com/[/url]

Davy

 

[faw3]

Thanks much Davy , you got a idea on how to find Braids first book? And did you catch my post about "if they need chain at Brady I got some" it's anchor chain off a U.S. war war ship 2 links is only 3 feet long Wt dont know I cant pick it up. Thanks again Fred :hatsoff:

 

Fred, the book I think you are referring to is:
Hawken Rifles-The Mountain Man's Choice by John D. Baird. You'll find it in Track of the Wolf Catalog #16 on ppg.9 and a couple other REAL good books on Hawken Rifles too.
Don :hatsoff:

 

[faw3]

Thank you I saw a old ad and was going to give them a try, from what Braid said in MB the 2nd book the Load is all the trick stuff no one ever knew about (from Dixie $29). Now to track down just what was the Ithaca a copy of 1" barrel and all, the old books, and Hawken shop have pics of some that are not tappered barrels, I'm just a nut on history and would like to know. Thanks again Fred :hatsoff:

 

Fred, the Ithaca Hawken was not a copy of any particular Hawken but a nice rendition of a common 1850's S. Hawken. They were about as good as it gets for a factory made Hawken. As far as straight barrels? Hawken used straight and tapered barrels on their rifles, mostly tapered but a straight octagon barrel is HC. There are plenty of original Hawken rifles out there with straight barrels.
Don

 

[Swampman]

My Hawken came in the mail today, and boy it's a beauty. $500.00 for a custom made rifle that is unfired was a heck of a deal. I'll post some pics as soon as I can get an overcast day to take them.

 

[davy]

Fred, the book I think you are referring to is:
Hawken Rifles-The Mountain Man's Choice by John D. Baird. You'll find it in Track of the Wolf Catalog #16 on ppg.9 and a couple other REAL good books on Hawken Rifles too.
Don :hatsoff:

Ditto! :hatsoff:

Davy

 

[reddogge]

fw,
Here is a partial description from Charles Hanson's book "The Plains Rifle" p37 where he is paraphrasing a description of a typical Hawken rifle in a book by James Serven, "Early Western Rifles" (Muzzle Blasts, May 1945).

"Average new bore was .50 caliber or slightly larger,...Full stock rifles I have inspected average 9 1/2 pounds in weight and about 38 1/2" in barrel length. Barrels are octagon and of 1" outside dimensions."

It goes on but that should interest you about the barrels.

On page 41 Hanson mentions the barrels were about .53 caliber, slow twist, soft iron, and took 150-215 grains of powder as a charge. They would shoot almost flat to 150 yards and kill at 200 and 250 yards.

He also mentions they had two barrel keys, and most, if not all, were stocked in walnut stained maple.