Mike Brooks said:
It is beyond me why people keep throwing away good money on these things.
Mike, since my next gun is likely to be a Loyalist gun from India, I thought I’d actually try and answer your question.
I completely understand the objections that can be raised by those who have many, many, many, times more expertise than me about calling a certain gun a “Brown Bess” or a “Hawken” when there are significant differences that can be pointed out between the real thing and the modern copy. If it doesn’t actually copy a real Brown Bess then it shouldn’t be called a Brown Bess, I agree.
Personally, I can't dispute the authenticity of the appearance of any of the guns, Italian, Indian, or custom made, since the plain fact is that I’ve never handled an original, and looking at one from a couple feet away through glass in a display case isn’t even close to what I’d learn actually handling one, my experience with swords verifies that.
A hobby I had for years was the study of Japanese swords. I am VERY familiar with real Japanese swords, and the general “Samurai” swords you see in martial arts stores and catalogs and malls are at best some vague interpretation of a real sword. To paraphrase what someone here on the forum once said about production “Hawkens”, I suppose they sorta look like katana if you’re driving past at 50 miles/hour and squint your eyes just right. But my wife, who has no particular interest in swords other than controlling how much I spent on them, can’t notice the differences for most until I point them out, she says they’re too subtle to really matter. I say they are glaringly obvious.
Here’s the thing though. Whether they are correct for someone to own depends on what he/she will use it for.
For the guy who is going to hang it on his wall the cheap ones will do. I sure wouldn’t want to be around if he ever decided to do something with it, like practice cutting (tamagashiri) , the things are absolutely very dangerous. VERY poorly made, dangerously made! But as general “Japanese” wall decoration they’re ok, I guess. SOME of the Indian guns fall into a category like this.
Then there are the better versions, still rather cheap, a couple hundred to maybe $1000, “aesthetically challenged” as far as reproductions of actual swords, but physically well made (although not as good as the originals), and certainly safe for practice cutting. Some guy might be going to do weekend martial arts (Iaido uses real swords for tamagashiri, as do some practitioners of Kenjutsu). He's not a collector, he just wants a sword to use for the occasional practice cutting. This is a good choice for him, it doesn’t make sense for him to spend thousands more on a top quality sword that he won't use that much. I look at SOME of the Indian guns as being in a similar category.
But if you’re serious about having a sword really as good as the originals, aesthetically and physically accurate copies of antique katana, you’re going to be looking at $2000 (if you’re lucky), $3000, and up, individually made by a very skilled swordsmith. You might wait 2 or 3 years for a custom sword. If you are a serious collector or very serious martial artist in a sword art, you will probably want this quality of sword. You will not be satisfied with the lower quality products. This is like the serious reenactor in muzzleloading, or someone seriously studying the history and weapons and so on.
AS FOR INDIAN GUNS ”“ With muzzleloaders I’m like the guy with the middle quality sword.
I’d like to get a short version of the Brown Bess. Or it would be more accurate to say I’d like to get a smoothbore flintlock in the general style of the short versions of the Brown Bess. Something similar to the Sea Service model, or the India Pattern, or the musketoon maybe. Authenticity isn’t a particular concern of mine. I don’t care if that appearance is historically correct or not, as long as it shoots ok for the rather limited use (compared to you for example) that I’ll make of it. I’m not looking for a reproduction of a Brown Bess. I’m looking for a gun
in the general style of a Brown Bess. Call it Brown Bess-ish.
Why people buy the Indian or Italian repros when they can get a much better and more accurate copy of those guns from other sources (TOW kits, for example)? For me there are three reasons.
First, I’m not really concerned with the accuracy of the appearance. I don’t go to any BP gatherings, so no one except me and my family will ever see the gun. I’m not trying to accurately recreate a particular era or location or person at all. I’m going to hunt with it, and do a little target practice.
Second, I shoot less than a pound of BP a year. About 2 pounds in 3 years. At that rate of usage, it simply doesn’t make sense for me to spend $1500-$2000, or more, on a really well made accurate copy from a gun maker.
And third, I have not found any non-Indian made production guns that are what I’m looking for, a shorter Brown Bess-ish gun.
Those three reasons are why my next gun will most likely be a Loyalist gun.
It’s hard to judge from the comments I read about the quality. Some say they quality is very high. Some say the quality is terrible. The problem is that I read the same things about the quality of the various US or Italian made production guns, which I’ve found to be fine
for my use, so what should I conclude about the Indian guns based on these comments? I will say, however, that there is at least one Indian company that I wouldn’t get a gun from if they were giving them away, based on their own information on their own website, but I won’t name it.
Anyway, that’s my take on why some people (at least me) will buy the Indian guns. I’m sure others have different views.
Take care! :hatsoff:
-Squirrel Tail
