Zoli Zouave

[F.G. Ford]

Some of these rifles ( reproductions) were made to shoot round ball and others were made to shoot minie ball, a barrel with a twist of 1:70 would shoot round ball better, and most likely not shoot minie ball too well.
Best regards

Old Ford

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The civil war rifled muskets pretty much all had slow twist and did fair to good with minnie balls. But the standard charges were between 55 and 65 grains for all nearly 58 cal rifled muskets

It should also be remembered that armies were still concentrating on volumne of fire and not as much as on accuracy. They may not have stood shoulder to shoulder as targets like in the rev war, but the theory of lobbing lead at the other with great frequency was still part of the mentality. They still threw masses of men at one another. That is one of the many reasons why Berdan's Sharps Shooters stood out as different.

The Minnie ball extended range of fire appreciably. Instead of a round ball which may have been good to 150 to 200 yards, the minnie held it's energy and could still seriously wound or kill at several hundreds of yards. There were some documented intended shots of out to 800 yards with those rifled muskets. Not that the Zouave saw much of that action. It was issued to actual fighting troops very late in the war and in small quantities as I recall. Most were too late for actual civil war use.

Despite the Enfields reputation, the Brit war depts field trials found that in the hands of the typical line soldier it was only good for three to five shots before they became difficult to load and accuracy went to heck. They tried adjusting the size of the minnie, the shape, the powder charge, the lube etc. Somewhere I have the list of changes of official charges for the 1853 Enfield and there were changes annually from 1853 on until the breech loaders predominated.

Minnes can be quite accurate in a slow twist rifled musket. Visit the range at Ft Shenandoah some time. The rifling is not usually all that deep and the charge not that great that the minnie strips through the rifling. In addition, most such rifled muskets had only three or five grooves, so the grooves and lands were very wide.

 

[Trep11]

What was the finish on the stock of the actual Civil War Remington Zouave? I think the stock was made from American Walnut. But how and with what did the finish them with?
Chuck

 

[hawkeye2]

They were black walnut with an oil finish, no stain. The stocks were straight grained, very rarely showing any figure as the wood was selected for uniformity and strength.

 

[Jim Fitzgibbon]

zimmerstutzen
That was some GREAT info.I can't seem to hear
enough on that stuff.I must think thats why
we shoot what we do.

I have a gun cabnet full of WW11 rifles & love that also.But black powder is my first love. :v

Fly

 

[RC61]

I shoot the Zoli Zouave in competition in the N-SSA. I use the hodgdon .575 minié with 3f 40 gr. That is a good target load. Lube them with Crisco and beeswax 50/50

 

[RC61]

Papa: In my opinion, you are correct. You want the skirt to flair to seal the bore and to engage the rifling grooves.
The 60 grain powder load Lee M mentioned will do that nicely.

Lee M was referring to what can happen if larger powder loads are used with a normal Minie' bullet.
While 60 grains of powder will not distort the hollow base as the bullet is leaving the muzzle, larger powder loads, and the higher pressures they produce can continue to expand and distort the Minie's base for a brief time after it has left the muzzle. This distortion, often refereed to as "blowing the skirt" can produce erratic flight and poor accuracy.

Some of the newer designs for Minie' bullets have fairly thick skirts to minimize this when heavy powder loads are used with them.

40 grains of 3f gets it done up to 100 yards.

 

[hawkeye2]

The barrel is nicely finished and pleasing. I purchased the rifle used, and the nipple size is confounding, as I think it should be 8mm x 1.25, but a previous owner may have forced a 5/16 x 18 so now either/both size is somewhat loose.

I hope you meant to say 5/16-24 as that is the standard thread for US service arms. It's quite possible someone did force the wrong thread nipple into it. The 8mm and 5/16-24 are close and it's possible to start one in the other.

 

[hawkeye2]

"Care must be taken with mini balls. Charges over 70 grs can cause the skirt to separate from the base and stick in the rifle breech."

If the skirt separates inside the barrel it's not because of the powder charge but rather a defect in the skirt (flawed casting).

 

[hawkeye2]

Using anything other than dead soft lead will inhibit the skirt expanding properly into the rifling and accuracy will suffer and using hotter loads won't help.

 

[dave951]

Ok here's the skinny. Hawkeye, myself and others shoot competition in the N-SSA with Civil War arms and we see the variants of the "Zouave" all the time. The basics are simple
1 use pure lead
2 moderate charges 40-50 3f NO subs
3 size minies to .001 under bore size
4 use good caps CCI are garbage
5 use good lube. I use beeswax/lard 50/50

 

[brewer12345]

Dave951, I have a couple of minie molds in the mail to me and will be casting soon. I will figure out the sizing for my bore, but I have a couple questions:

- Do you suggest putting lube in the hollow base or just in the grooves?
- Where do you get sizing dies for minies? Ideally I would like to find dies that fit my single stage press.

Thanks.

 

[barracudadave67]

S & S Firearms has dies that will fit both the Lyman, and RCBS Lubesizers. Just pick the right size.
You can also get a neat little gadget from Northeast trade Co., called an "inside, outside luber". It will lube the minnies lube grooves, and give a spertz of lube into the hollow base at the same time. John also sells sizers, that will work in any reloading press, with 7/8th-14 threads. You can lube the minnies, before , or after you insert the minnie into the plastic tube.
Get some pin gages, to measure the correct bore size fore your bore
Dave

 

[springfield art]

Ok here's the skinny. Hawkeye, myself and others shoot competition in the N-SSA with Civil War arms and we see the variants of the "Zouave" all the time. The basics are simple
1 use pure lead
2 moderate charges 40-50 3f NO subs
3 size minies to .001 under bore size
4 use good caps CCI are garbage
5 use good lube. I use beeswax/lard 50/50

One cannot get better information than that posted by the N-SSA boys.

What was the finish on the stock of the actual Civil War Remington Zouave? I think the stock was made from American Walnut. But how and with what did the finish them with?
Chuck

The standard at the time for military muskets was linseed oil. I'll be interested to read if anyone has specific info about that specific musket, which was never officially issued or adopted. The replicas have that awful poly-modern spray on which I strip and replace with boiled linseed oil after staining if the stock is that pale color.

 

[springfield art]

S & S Firearms has dies that will fit both the Lyman, and RCBS Lubesizers. Just pick the right size.
You can also get a neat little gadget from Northeast trade Co., called an "inside, outside luber". It will lube the minnies lube grooves, and give a spertz of lube into the hollow base at the same time. John also sells sizers, that will work in any reloading press, with 7/8th-14 threads. You can lube the minnies, before , or after you insert the minnie into the plastic tube.
Get some pin gages, to measure the correct bore size fore your bore
Dave

"Spertz"! I like that term!

 

[dave951]

- Do you suggest putting lube in the hollow base or just in the grooves?
- Where do you get sizing dies for minies? Ideally I would like to find dies that fit my single stage press

Lube in the base. NO but sometimes it takes a smear of lube to help with fouling. In that case, you're near having the load balanced but not quite. Dip lube the sized minie at first up to where you just cover the top ring.

Sizing dies. John at NE Trader has them and his web info along with others is on the N-SSA main web page in Links/Sutlers. That said, N-SSA member Tom Crone makes the best dies I've seen or used but he doesn't have a website. That's not to say John's or the others are bad, they'll work. Sizing dies are made either to work in an arbor press or with 7/8x14 threads to fit most single stage reloading presses. I have a couple single stage presses that are dedicated to certain guns so I don't have to switch things around.

 

[brewer12345]

Thanks, guys. Looks like I have a clear path forward.

 

[springfield art]

Thanks, guys. Looks like I have a clear path forward.

You can't go wrong with experienced N-SSA shooters' information; that organization kept the whole science of Civil War era weaponry alive.

 

[Eddie Southgate]

50-60 gr ffg with prb and 60-70 gr ffg with Lyman 575213 os or 575213 has worked in my Zoli since I got it in the 60's. Works at the range and in the field just the same .

 

[1860man]

I shoot the Zoli Zouave in competition in the N-SSA. I use the hodgdon .575 minié with 3f 40 gr. That is a good target load. Lube them with Crisco and beeswax 50/50
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