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Would like a powder recommendation

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Keith T

32 Cal.
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
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I'm shooting a 54 cal with roundballs. I've been shooting either RS Pyrodex or FFg Goex black powder. (100 g.) Would there be any advatage to switching to FFFg? And if I did so, would I need to cut down on the amount of powder?

Its been a while since I bought real black powder. It's getting hard to find around here.
 
If shooting a flintlock, shoot the real stuff.

I don't shoot the fakes at all and depart from the norm by shooting FFg in all my BP guns including .32s, .40s and flinters. Others will tell you there is less fouling and more velocity with the 3F which could very well be true. Several experiments were done back in the 80s that showed FFg to be more consistent than FFFg (the 3F would have 2-5 unexplained velocity spikes in 100 rounds). We were involved in serious competition at that time and could not afford such a spike.

Sight picture, trigger control and follow through.
TC
 
I love the Pyro RS myself. Just took a nice deer with 80 grains and a PRB; 75 yards-ish, complete pass through and and a 35 yard trailing job.
Mu hunting buddy uses the 777 FFFg. Gets good groups too, mine is just cheaper.
 
Yes there is an advantage! For one, it's cheaper to shoot the real stuff. Secondly, the subs absorb more moisture than real BP, so missfires can be more of a problem, depending upon several factors, such as weather, dampness of the patch/how long it's in contact with the charge, and the quality of the spark, etc. Most hunters use a magnum cap to make sure the subs ignite :wink: .

As to your other question in regards to using FFFg instead of FFg: you might find that using 10% less powder gives you the same ballistics, along with the possibility of less crud. I'd be willing to say that I think that not all of the 100 grains of powder is going to burn INSIDE the barrel while using a PRB. There is documentation on this Forum that supports this.

Good luck testing the FFFg :thumbsup:

Dave
 
Keith: Without knowing the ball diameter and patch thickness and lube you are using, you are asking a lot from us to guess at your result. FFFg powder does burn faster, creates greater chamber pressure, a bit more recoil, and more velocity. You would have to reduce the FFFg powder charge by at least 10% in most guns to get the same velocity you are getting with your favorite FFg load.

The only way you can possibly know what happens with your gun is to test both powders over a chronograph, shooting off a bench rest. You can use the Chronograph to tell you exactly how much FFFg powder to use to equal the FFg powder load you now use.

Most barrels have a sweet spot where the barrel harmonics work to produce consistent accuracy shot after shot. If you found that through trial and error using FFg, the only way you will find it again, without burning lots of powder, is to use that Chronograph to tell if the FFFg powder charge velocity is higher or lower than that standard velocity you get with the FFg.

For what it may be worth to you, Some of the members here shoot 80 grains of FFFg powder behind a .530 RB, with a .015-.018" thick patch, and a wool oversized( .58 caliber) wad betwen the powder and PRB to act as a fire wall. When you get over 70 grains of FFFg powder in a barrel, the hot flames often seems to burn the patch around the back of the ball. Using an OP wad of some kind to act as a fire wall cures the problem.
 
Whatever you do,,don't use subs,,they will rot your barrel and shrink your balls :rotf: Seriously subs powder tends to be MORE corrosive than real black! But,,some oil is better than no oil, so to speak. If you want to be traditional,,use traditional! Real black is not that hard to come by. Good luck and good shooting!
 
Long ago I used to use Pyrodex regularly. Then for the last 20 years or so, I've used black powder exclusively. Having shot them both side by side a number of times, I'm with 40 Flint. Pyrodex didn't give as good of groups overall as black powder. Combine that with the magnum caps or musket caps that are sometimes required to touch it off reliably, and it doesn't usually shoot as well as black powder. Considering it's just as corrosive, if not more so, than black powder, and it's more expensive and doesn't age well, black powder looks like the better deal all around. I'm glad I came to my senses and switched back to black powder. My target scores improved greatly and the deer and elk still go down just as fast.
 
Sometimes,,the longer,slower, pressure curve of 2f,results in greater accuracy. Don't sell 2f short, a lot of the .40 cal people are winning matches with it, and there ain't THAT much more fouling!
 
Goex 3F in everything (.40/.45/.50/.54/.56/.58/.62 cals)...its fast, clean, and accurate.
 
My rifles and I like Goex 3f, KIK 3f or Pyrodex P

Use about 10% less than 2f. I like the real stuff better, but use both. For your caplock the Pyro P should work just fine. You do have a caplock? :grin:
 
You may want to check out Graf and Sons Mexico, Mo. They are a very good supplier of Black Powder. :thumbsup:
 
I'm not really having any issues. My shots at 75 yards are grouping well. I shot some two days ago and at 100 yards they were breaking up more than I liked. That could have been due to the wobbly table we were using that day. Also, I was only swabbing a few times after each shot. I don't know if that was enough? How well do you guys clean between shots when you are sighting in?

By the way: The gun is a custom gun made by Golden Age Arms. It has a green mountain barrel. It's a 54 percussion. I'm shooting Remington caps. The ball size is .535. My ticking is .17 to .18

I guess I just need to get out and burn some powder and make comparisons. Does 100 gr sound like too much powder?
 
I think you need to let your rifle decide which real black granulation it likes. I like both 3f and 2f goex for my 50 caliber and the difference in group size isn't that much. My rifle definitely likes 2f the best for accuracy.
 
Keith, sounds like you are using too much powder. I find that 75 grains of 3F in my .54 will do everything I need to do.

Many Klatch
 
I think 100 grains is too much powder, but your rifle will tell you, for sure. Back that off to 75 or 80 grains of FFFg powder, or 90 grains of FFg for a hunting load, and use an OP wad. Use a chronograph to check velocity and Standard Deviation of Velocity for the load. The combination of the .535" and .018 patch sounds tight to me, but then its your gun. Without knowing the land to land diameter, and then the groove diameter, its hard to know what you are using, or equate it to anything I have shot. Lubes make a difference, too. You haven't shared with us what lube you are using.

Yes, cleaning between shots makes a difference at 100 yards and beyond. Ask the target shooters. They want the barrel to be as clean for the last shot as it was for the first. If crud is allowed to build up between shots, and you load the PRB to a mark, the powder chamber ( the area behind the PRB) is shortened, and you have to be seeing higher chamber pressures, and more eratic velocities with subsequent shots in an uncleaned barrel.

The only way to know what is happening with your gun is to test fire it over a chronograph, and on a target. Using a bench rest, to eliminate as much human error as possible, fire 3-5 shot groups using all the same components. In one test group, clean the barrel as you have been doing. In the second, clean it thoroughly. See what difference you have in group sizes at the longer ranges. Do the test more than once, switching around which group is fired first. That will even out issues relating to fatigue, slight changes in loading procedures over the day, lighting and wind conditions. The readings on chronograph will tell you if your loading procedures and techniques are causing wide diffences in Velocity. And, ALWAYS read your spent patches. Collect them after each shot RELIGIOUSLY. The patch tells you as much as the chronograph will about what your powder charge is doing in the barrel.

Best wishes. :thumbsup:
 
roundball said:
Goex 3F in everything (.40/.45/.50/.54/.56/.58/.62 Cal's)...its fast, clean, and accurate.
roundball,
I can't comment on anything above
.54,but from .32 to .54 I absolutely agree.
I am completely satisfied with 3fff Goex
performance.
I also think anything above 80grns is waisting
powder in a .54. But that is just an opinion.
snake-eyes:hmm:
 
Thanks for all the help and suggestions!! Seems like a great bunch of people on this forum.
 
I'm a 3F real Black Powder man myself in my 54 flinter and all the rest of my ML's... well except my four bore. I am still trying to figure out if 1F or 2F is better there.
 
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