Why the "Skychief" load works?

[CapPopper]

My lack of equipment is hardly a corner im in no more of a corner than anyone else.... All im saying is I can theorize until my head pops off and since I have no equipment its just a theory however with what I know I would say tge theory is highly likely to probable at least parts of it so unless someone can disprove any of it better than I can prove it were at an impasse

 

[CapPopper]

You know I've been here for a little bit know and I've been nothing but polite and tried to share what knowledge I have which ive gotten the impression from some must be limited because I am young... Ive also tried to make good conversation and fairly educated statements when I know something and ask questions when I don't to farther my understanding... Despite quite a few saying its nice to see someone young interested in the sport there always seem to be one or the other that comes across in a slightly condescending manner that I notice doesn't get directed towards others older than myself... I don't mind my theories been questioned or good natured ribbing but when negative words like "obstinate" start getting thrown around in reference to me when all I've done is try to have a respectful conversation that will hopefully farther mine and others knowledge I find it fairly disrespectful... Especially in such a veiled manner being told more or less I don't know anything.... Good to know I respect my elders more than they respect me. Good day to you sir.

 

[Skychief]

Each size shot showed about the same improvement smo.

Powder
Hard or Nitro card
Shot
Thin overshot card
Lubed full cushion wad

I want to list the load again so all will remember that I use a thin overshot card below the cushion wad. So, it's in front of the shot load doing its thing, whatever that may be.

I came to this load in stages.

In searching for denser patterns better suited to farther targets (grey squirrel comes to mind), and stationary small targets (squirrel again as well as turkey noggins), this load evolved over time. Spence will remember my groaning about how tall our hickory trees are here....the squirrels look like gnats at those elevations! :haha:

My guns shot poor patterns (think donuts) for stationary targets with the customary cushion wad under the shot. So, I tried loads without them using only nitro or thick cards over the powder. I saw improvement.

Our late member, Paul V, suggested I try lubing the bore after loading, in a turkey load discussion. I tried it. I saw improvement. The load now lubes the bore when the cushion wad is seated.

Next, I experimented with replacing the thin overshot card with heavier "over the powder" cards, then "nitro" cards. For awhile I settled on using two "nitro" cards on top of the shot load. I saw improvement.

I next looked for good performance with the benefit of a cleaner bore while rabbit and squirrel hunting where multiple shots called for my cleaning the bore afield with the non lubed load. The full lubed cushion wad on top of the shot charge came next. I lubed them heavier and heavier. I saw improvement.

The latest change I've made is adding a thin overshot card under the full cushion wad on top of the shot. My thinking was they may prevent a few pellets from driving into the wet cushion wad upon firing. Again, I saw improvement.

So, it's not JUST the "out of place" cushion wad making denser patterns in the load. It, along with the other ingredients of the recipe all work together.

I won't debate the science at work making the load shine. I'm just happy to use it in my hunting and hopefully pass along that which works for me to the benefit of others. :thumbsup:

Best regards, Skychief (Patent Pending)

 

[azmntman]

You know I've been here for a little bit know and I've been nothing but polite and tried to share what knowledge I have which ive gotten the impression from some must be limited because I am young... Ive also tried to make good conversation and fairly educated statements when I know something and ask questions when I don't to farther my understanding... Despite quite a few saying its nice to see someone young interested in the sport there always seem to be one or the other that comes across in a slightly condescending manner that I notice doesn't get directed towards others older than myself... I don't mind my theories been questioned or good natured ribbing but when negative words like "obstinate" start getting thrown around in reference to me when all I've done is try to have a respectful conversation that will hopefully farther mine and others knowledge I find it fairly disrespectful... Especially in such a veiled manner being told more or less I don't know anything.... Good to know I respect my elders more than they respect me. Good day to you sir.

Cap popper....There are a few on board here that post about 98% negative comments (not directed at brknnock, I didnt scroll up to read that post). One ONLY posts when he someone to "slam". A few folks have left due to these "gentlemen" . One has alot good to say but often says it whilst either tooting his horn or twisting the horn of others.

95% of us welcome you and several (me included) have no doubt your as up on this as we are (and I was shooting BP 21 years when yer mommy popped you out!

Just shine em on. Dont reply to the crude sneer remarks. nd as a last resort we have a really cool "lead box" avalable on the forum that ya can put them in and you will NEVER hear their holier than though horse poo again!.

If I had a smoothie and was close you would have it on Loan. Have a great few more hours of the weekend! :thumbsup:

 

[Kansas Jake]

X2 on what azmtman said.

 

[smo]

Each size shot showed about the same improvement smo.

Powder
Hard or Nitro card
Shot
Thin overshot card
Lubed full cushion wad

I want to list the load again so all will remember that I use a thin overshot card below the cushion wad. So, it's in front of the shot load doing its thing, whatever that may be.

I came to this load in stages.

In searching for denser patterns better suited to farther targets (grey squirrel comes to mind), and stationary small targets (squirrel again as well as turkey noggins), this load evolved over time. Spence will remember my groaning about how tall our hickory trees are here....the squirrels look like gnats at those elevations! :haha:

My guns shot poor patterns (think donuts) for stationary targets with the customary cushion wad under the shot. So, I tried loads without them using only nitro or thick cards over the powder. I saw improvement.

Our late member, Paul V, suggested I try lubing the bore after loading, in a turkey load discussion. I tried it. I saw improvement. The load now lubes the bore when the cushion wad is seated.

Next, I experimented with replacing the thin overshot card with heavier "over the powder" cards, then "nitro" cards. For awhile I settled on using two "nitro" cards on top of the shot load. I saw improvement.

I next looked for good performance with the benefit of a cleaner bore while rabbit and squirrel hunting where multiple shots called for my cleaning the bore afield with the non lubed load. The full lubed cushion wad on top of the shot charge came next. I lubed them heavier and heavier. I saw improvement.

The latest change I've made is adding a thin overshot card under the full cushion wad on top of the shot. My thinking was they may prevent a few pellets from driving into the wet cushion wad upon firing. Again, I saw improvement.

So, it's not JUST the "out of place" cushion wad making denser patterns in the load. It, along with the other ingredients of the recipe all work together.

I won't debate the science at work making the load shine. I'm just happy to use it in my hunting and hopefully pass along that which works for me to the benefit of others. :thumbsup:

Best regards, Skychief (Patent Pending)

Thank you very much Skychief for taking the time to walk us all through your loading sequence again.

And Thank You for freely sharing this information.

I’ve had a few pm’s between me and Paul V. I still miss him here.

When you talked with him about lubing the barrel after loading, did him mention where he came up with the idea?

I mentioned before I remember Guys doing it at organized Turkey Shoots.

Thanks again I can’t wait to test the load, I’ve got a few tall Hickory’s too. :thumbsup:

 

[Brokennock]

Relax. My remark about obstinent statements of "fact," was in no way directed at you personally, or any one individual for that matter. I see a lot of posters here, on any number of subjects, stating things as if what they say is the be all end all fact, this usually raises the :bull: flag in my mind. We have 5 pages now of armchair theory, if we reduced it to just those who have tried SkyChief's loading method we'd be down to one or two.

As for what matters or doesn't matter in effecting a shot pattern, or group of single shots,,,, it all matters, almost everything one does/uses effects the end result. This is true of cartridge guns/reloading as well as our front stuffers, some things may effect the end result more or less than others, some may have more effect in one gun (or set of circumstances) than another, but it all matters. Yes a thin over shot card can deflect shot, yes how a shell is crimped (or more importantly how that crimp unfolds/opens) can effect pattern, but does it always? I think it's a combination of things that make the Skychief load work, but it's just my theory that the result is the combination of things done a little different than any one thing. To me it doesn't matter, it works. The only question left in my mind is, will it tighten patterns for shot loads developed using paper shot cups? I'm fixin to find out.

So please don't take personal offence, nothing was directed at you personally, and you'll know if I mean to offend you.

 

[coloradoclyde]

My lack of equipment is hardly a corner im in no more of a corner than anyone else

You're right, equipment has nothing to do with where you are....

The title of this topic is;
Why the Skychief load works?

 

[Pukka Bundook]

It to me is all very interesting and more than 34 years since I could really discuss shot charges and effects. (No, not been in jail!) LOL!

If I may theorise Skychief;

Lubed wad/lubed barrel makes sense.
We know that pellets fired with no shot-cup show a good percentage damaged whilst traveling up the bore. This pressure abrasion would be lessened if the bore were slick/lubed ahead of them.
Some crushing of the rearmost pellets is inevitable with or without shot cup, but these don't come into the equation.
So, we have less damaged pellets in your load. Undamaged or less damaged pellets fly truer than deformed ones, so more on the target.
How the wad manages to Not disrupt the pattern to some degree I do not know. (Sent Smo a photo of a normal over-shot wad doing just this.)
But maybe the higher percentage of undamaged pellets, (lubed bore ) effectively counter-acts the disturbance created by the wad.

Of course, a disrupted pattern by no means suggests a failed pattern, and most are still game-getters within normal ranges, of say 40 yards with a true cylinder.

I will have to look back at page one of this thread , as I don't remember the charge of powder you used in these trials, but the thought comes to me that maybe lower charges of powder would increase your density of pattern. Will go back and look though!

There used to be a trick that was used by gunmakers of yore, to show how a gun would throw all (All) it's pellets into a hat at a certain distance; They simply loaded less powder, so less pressure = less disturbance, and tighter patterns.
For practical reasons we don't want to go to these lengths, as we also need penetration. Happy mediums and all that!!

All the best,
Richard.

 

[Skychief]

It's been too many moons ago for me to recall Paul's details of how he came to greasing a bore, smo. Sorry.

Happy hunting, Skychief

 

[Skychief]

To all, the earlier load using a couple of nitro cards sitting on top of the shot provided zero lube to the bore, yet tightened patterns remarkably.

File this under the 'For what it's worth' category.

Best regards, Skychief

 

[smo]

It's been too many moons ago for me to recall Paul's details of how he came to greasing a bore, smo. Sorry.

Happy hunting, Skychief

No problem Thanks Brother :thumbsup:

 

[coloradoclyde]

There used to be a trick that was used by gunmakers of yore, to show how a gun would throw all (All) it's pellets into a hat at a certain distance; They simply loaded less powder, so less pressure = less disturbance, and tighter patterns.
For practical reasons we don't want to go to these lengths, as we also need penetration. Happy mediums and all that!!

You are on to something there Richard... :thumbsup:

 

[smo]

Less powder, more lead, shoots far, kills dead.
More powder, less lead, kicks hard, wide spread.

:v

 

[CapPopper]

And that's been most all I've discussed is possibilities on why the heavy lubed wad first makes the skycheif load work.... So I don't know what you mean..

 

[CapPopper]

I am sorry if I took it the wrong way.... I spend a lot of time getting flak because of my age with there being no real concern over what I know.... Often from individuals with less knowledge than me... And im way over exposed to the same at work it gets very old very fast I've also had a killer cold and though the stuffy nose and sore throat don't bother me too much every time I get a cold something goes wrong with my ears and I feel slightly dizzy and only have about 50% of my hearing... That gets very old and incredibly irritating very fast which im sure maybe a few people on here can identify with... So I am sorry for my crabbiness... :bow:

 

[coloradoclyde]

You must have missed this post.

Create a test using an analog.

You don't need a high speed camera. There are other ways to see what's going on....Pretty much all of the great ballisticians didn't have a high speed camera.

 

[Vicanddogs]

Sky what is your go to squirrel load for your 20 ga
Thanks
Vic

 

[rich pierce]

Would love to see some patterns.

 

[Britsmoothy]

https://goo.gl/images/wRCvxy

B :hatsoff: