Why are 1861s are hard to find?

[kyle_kalasnik]

Why are Springfield 1861s and the various sub contracted rifle muskets so hard to find? Is it because it is the “epitome” of Civil War firearms, and the people who do own them have not listed them?

I have found a few Bridesburg, Colt, etc, but even then the pickings are

I’m pretty good and have had great luck at searching the internet to find a specific firearm (generally traditional style muzzlelaoders)

Thank you in advance.

Respectfully,
Kyle Kalasnik

 

[Whitworth]

Low production numbers perhaps.

 

[Crow-Feather]

The Springfield Model 1861 was a Minié-type rifled musket used by the United States Army and Marine Corps during the American Civil War. Commonly referred to as the "Springfield" (after its original place of production, Springfield, Massachusetts).[4]
It was the most widely used Union Army shoulder weapon during the Civil War, favored for its range, accuracy, and reliability.

The Model 1863 Springfield was only a minor improvement over the Springfield Model 1861. As such, it is sometimes classified as just a variant of the Model 1861. The Model 1861, with all of its variants, was the most commonly used longarm in the American Civil War, with over 700,000 manufactured. The Model 1863 also has the distinction of being the last muzzle-loading longarm produced by the Springfield Armory.

 

[kyle_kalasnik]

The Springfield Model 1861 was a Minié-type rifled musket used by the United States Army and Marine Corps during the American Civil War. Commonly referred to as the "Springfield" (after its original place of production, Springfield, Massachusetts).[4]
It was the most widely used Union Army shoulder weapon during the Civil War, favored for its range, accuracy, and reliability.

The Model 1863 Springfield was only a minor improvement over the Springfield Model 1861. As such, it is sometimes classified as just a variant of the Model 1861. The Model 1861, with all of its variants, was the most commonly used longarm in the American Civil War, with over 700,000 manufactured. The Model 1863 also has the distinction of being the last muzzle-loading longarm produced by the Springfield Armory.

For being the most produced the lack of available for sale amazes me.

How many were converted after the Civil War? Could that be the reason?

 

[Artificer]

Why are Springfield 1861s and the various sub contracted rifle muskets so hard to find? Is it because it is the “epitome” of Civil War firearms, and the people who do own them have not listed them?

I have found a few Bridesburg, Colt, etc, but even then the pickings are

I’m pretty good and have had great luck at searching the internet to find a specific firearm (generally traditional style muzzlelaoders)

Thank you in advance.

Respectfully,
Kyle Kalasnik

Hi Kyle,

I asked the EXACT same question over 40 years ago when I first began doing UnCivil War reenacting. Back then some reenactors shooting blanks and a bunch of NSSA shooters shooting live rounds were using more original guns as the price difference between them and repros was not as large as it is today. Even then, it was MUCH easier to find 1863's than 1861's.

I knew a bunch of collectors who had a lot more money to spend than I did in those days, as well as many of the older NSSA shooters. Here's basically what they told me:

1. Battle Damage and Loss
2. Some were converted to .50-70 Trapdoor, though most of those were 1863's
3. Many were "sporterized" and reamed out to smoothbore to make cheap shotguns, that could actually be sold to folks who had no need or desire to own a .58 cal. Minie Ball Rifle Gun.
4. Some to many were sold cheap to foreign governments
5. A good number were stored for years in NG Armories and warehouses, but eventually turned over to the WWII era scrap metal drives.
6. A fair number were Chrome Plated for use by Northern Veterans' Units in the decades after the war
7. Many were just "used up" in the westward expansion after the War

Bottom line, since breech loading and other cartridge arms made their strong debut's so successfully during the UnCivil, ML arms were seen as outdated and not that many people wanted to own them, especially in that LARGE of a caliber.

Gus

Edited to add: The 1980's UnCivil war TV series, of "The North and the South" as well as "The Blue and Grey", the 1990's movies "Glory", "Gettysburg", "Gods and Generals" and other shows/films since have all stimulated interest in these rifles and a lot of folks bought 1861's back then.

 

[William Lincoln]

Add to that the fact that men who were "issued" rifles were focused on survival,
not on cleaning their barrels. No doubt many did proper maintenance . but also
many did not. Human nature shirks adding to the workload.

 

[kh54]

I understand that Union soldiers were allowed to purchase their arms at the end of the ACW. I seem to recall that about ten percent did so. But my recollection could be flawed and raises a question: Did the offer apply to all arms including breechloaders, repeating rifles and revolvers? I don’t know and would appreciate someone who does sharing their knowledge.

The point is, if only ten percent of muskets carried by Union soldiers ended up in private hands, one would assume that the others were converted, sold abroad, or otherwise disposed of by the War Department. So 700,000 Springfield muskets become only 70,000 available in the civilian market, and as has been noted a fair number was converted to shotguns, shortened or altered in some other way.

I count myself fortunate that I own an original 1853 Enfield and an original 1861 Springfield. I wish they could talk.

 

[kyle_kalasnik]

Hi Kyle,

I asked the EXACT same question over 40 years ago when I first began doing UnCivil War reenacting. Back then some reenactors shooting blanks and a bunch of NSSA shooters shooting live rounds were using more original guns as the price difference between them and repros was not as large as it is today. Even then, it was MUCH easier to find 1863's than 1861's.

I knew a bunch of collectors who had a lot more money to spend than I did in those days, as well as many of the older NSSA shooters. Here's basically what they told me:

1. Battle Damage and Loss
2. Some were converted to .50-70 Trapdoor, though most of those were 1863's
3. Many were "sporterized" and reamed out to smoothbore to make cheap shotguns, that could actually be sold to folks who had no need or desire to own a .58 cal. Minie Ball Rifle Gun.
4. Some to many were sold cheap to foreign governments
5. A good number were stored for years in NG Armories and warehouses, but eventually turned over to the WWII era scrap metal drives.
6. A fair number were Chrome Plated for use by Northern Veterans' Units in the decades after the war
7. Many were just "used up" in the westward expansion after the War

Bottom line, since breech loading and other cartridge arms made their strong debut's so successfully during the UnCivil, ML arms were seen as outdated and not that many people wanted to own them, especially in that LARGE of a caliber.

Gus

Edited to add: The 1980's UnCivil war TV series, of "The North and the South" as well as "The Blue and Grey", the 1990's movies "Glory", "Gettysburg", "Gods and Generals" and other shows/films since have all stimulated interest in these rifles and a lot of folks bought 1861's back then.

That was very helpful, thank you. I guess I’ll just have to keep looking for one that catches my eye, which is part of the fun of this hobby.

 

[kyle_kalasnik]

I understand that Union soldiers were allowed to purchase their arms at the end of the ACW. I seem to recall that about ten percent did so. But my recollection could be flawed and raises a question: Did the offer apply to all arms including breechloaders, repeating rifles and revolvers? I don’t know and would appreciate someone who does sharing their knowledge.

The point is, if only ten percent of muskets carried by Union soldiers ended up in private hands, one would assume that the others were converted, sold abroad, or otherwise disposed of by the War Department. So 700,000 Springfield muskets become only 70,000 available in the civilian market, and as has been noted a fair number was converted to shotguns, shortened or altered in some other way.

I count myself fortunate that I own an original 1853 Enfield and an original 1861 Springfield. I wish they could talk.

I also consider my self very lucky to own a orginal P1853 Enfield Rifle Musket and a orginal 1842 Springfield Rifled Musket. Like you said if they could talk, man who knows where there were at and who carried them!

 

[Justin.44]

The fence surrounding Grant's cabin here in St. Louis is made up of 2,563 musket barrels, so that accounts for a few of them I'm sure!

 

[kyle_kalasnik]

The fence surrounding Grant's cabin here in St. Louis is made up of 2,563 musket barrels, so that accounts for a few of them I'm sure! View attachment 104970

, that answers the question

 

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

Back in 1960, when I was 14/15 and getting into mischief, my Dad introduced me to a friend of his, a History Prof at U. Maryland. He was big on Civil War history, and took me up to his attic, where he had well over 100 1861 Springfields, uniforms, equipment, etc. I paid him $20 for a Springfield, and another $10 (I think) for a Union Naval Uniform - his reenactment group was the "Landing Party off the USS Constellation", which had been berthed in Baltimore.
Bill took me to a number of target shoots around the DC area, Ft. Meade, Camp A.P. Hill, etc., and to the reenactment of First Manassas - and i was hooked! Did very well at the target shoots, BTW. We also had a cannon, as one of the members was working at Anacostia and had gotten a 3" naval gun barrel. He shortened it considerable, mounted it on a naval gun mount, and we fired beer cans full of concrete at 1,000 yard targets! Got pretty good with it, shooting holes in a sheet of plywood.
All in all, great fun, educational, and kept me out of mischief. Unfortunately, Dad retired from the Navy in 1962, we moved to Florida for his new job, and I could not find any ML guys there at all. Didn't take up ML again until about 1973, when I finally started college. But I dearly remember that '61 Springfield, and casting bullets on the Friday before a weekend target shoot.

 

[Treestalker]

Many modern Civil War reenactors prefer the 1861 to the 1863 because they cover a wider timeline and are therefore historically correct for more battle scenarios. I once owned a repro 1863 Springfield and remember the prejudice against non HC- time correct guns in certain battle reenactments especially the Remington Zouave. But they were used because many of us weren't financially able to buy anything we wanted. But we had fun anyway. One friend of mine had a repro 1855 Springfield and was lucky enough to find an original 1855 (?) bayonet in a pawn shop to use on it. It was his pride and joy.

 

[Dave Fox]

As I recall, large numbers were sold to France during the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-71. A friend owns what is likely one of these, subsequently converted to flintlock, likely for the African trade.

 

[Jkil]

My two cents: I also searched unsuccessfully for many years for an affordable, shootable 1855 - 1864 Springfield rifled musket. Finally I took a big chance and bought an 1863 through Gunbroker several years ago. Money back if returned in 3 days. It turned out to be in great condition; the only non-original part was one of the barrel band screws (since replaced). I have been shooting it ever since. First I've heard that specifically 10% of CW vets purchased their guns, although all small arms were made available, including breach loaders and repeaters, as a means for the Gov't to get rid of obsolete or unneeded arms and recoup scarce funds. A ML musket that cost $18 to $24 was sold for $5, back when $5 was a lot of money. Even stockpiled parts were sold, to be re-assembled by retailers. Those not converted as described by others became "attic guns" and passed down to subsequent generations. Mine had been allowed to rust, then someone cleaned it up. It now has a nice patina with all markings clearly visible. The stock was also sanded, unfortunately removing the armorer's proof marks, which is probably why I was able to afford it. Yes, I sure wish it could talk. Best of luck on your search!

 

[Capnball]

Why are Springfield 1861s and the various sub contracted rifle muskets so hard to find? Is it because it is the “epitome” of Civil War firearms, and the people who do own them have not listed them?

I have found a few Bridesburg, Colt, etc, but even then the pickings are

I’m pretty good and have had great luck at searching the internet to find a specific firearm (generally traditional style muzzlelaoders)

Thank you in advance.

Respectfully,
Kyle Kalasnik

Alot of 1861s of all makes were sent back to factories to be modernized. Most were converted to trap door cartridge firing rifles. The rest I'd guess are in private collections. I own a Bridesberg that was basically a relic barn find. It had been sporterized and stripped of anything that wasn't absolutely necessary to make the weapon shootable. I restored the gun in what I refer to as a sympathetic restoration. All the parts are period correct (less the sights) and it does indeed fire. But Bridesberg only had a two band musket AFTER the war and the shortening of the barrel was part of a trapdoor conversion.

That's my son at the range with me. We fired it for the first time that day.
Neil

 

[kyle_kalasnik]

Thank you for sharing. That is a beautiful looking rifle musket there

 

[Capnball]

Thank you for sharing. That is a beautiful looking rifle musket there

There's a build thread called "Bridesberg Resurrection" in the builders forum on this website.
I made my living as a carpenter and an automobile mechanic so I had the basic skill set to restore the gun. The rest of the information, I got here on the muzzleloader forum.
Good luck with your search.
Neil

 

[kyle_kalasnik]

There's a build thread called "Bridesberg Resurrection" in the builders forum on this website.
I made my living as a carpenter and an automobile mechanic so I had the basic skill set to restore the gun. The rest of the information, I got here on the muzzleloader forum.
Good luck with your search.
Neil

Thank you.

 

[JCKelly]

.58 cal rifled muskets made at Springfield had the best quality (strongest) rife barrels ever made, then or now. At least in the USA. Pedersoli good, strength-wise'
References:
1. Harper’s Ferry and the New Technology, Merritt Roe Smith
2. Basic knowledge of steel metallurgy