Wheel weight lead question

[awreis]

Yes. Another one but I haven't been able to find an answer to my question. From what I have read, wheel weights lead is harder than pure lead and might be a couple thousandths oversized (instead of being .440, it might be .443) my question is, what does a harder lead do to the bore that makes it unusable for muzzleloaders? Possible make it wear more quickly? If it's a little big, could use a slightly thinner patch to compensate for this? I do know that it doesn't expand like pure lead when hunting but if all I am is shooting steel and paper, this won't matter for me.

 

[Rancocas]

sigh. Again, I use wheel weight lead to cast round balls all the time. Sure, it is harder than pure lead. So what? A patched ball doesn't touch the rifling, and even if it did - it is still lead and not as hard as the steel gun barrel. Modern jacketed bullets are very hard especially when compared to wheel weight lead, yet they are made to imprint on the rifling. How much wear do they do to a gun barrel?
Sure, hard lead doesn't flatten out or mushroom on contact with a target, not much anyway, but a .44 hole, or a .49 hole, or a .53 hole, or whatever is still devastating on any target. Even a .32 hole in a squirrel is like a cannon ball through a cape buffalo. My .490 wheel weight round balls pass completely through a deer or wild hog. Some drop immediately. Some run for a few dozen yards.
I use any scrap lead that I can find. Mostly wheel weights, but almost anything will do.

Others may take the opposite view. Experiment and find out for yourself.

 

[Banjoman]

I found out the hard way that wheel weight lead was too hard for use in revolvers. It was just too hard to push the balls into the cylinder with a loading rod. I had read that somewhere but did it anyway only to find out it was true.

They will work in rifles and smooth bores. You may have to find a thinner patch. It won’t harm the bore. If it will melt and pour I’ll use it.

 

[R Ellis]

sigh. Again, I use wheel weight lead to cast round balls all the time. Sure, it is harder than pure lead. So what? A patched ball doesn't touch the rifling, and even if it did - it is still lead and not as hard as the steel gun barrel. Modern jacketed bullets are very hard especially when compared to wheel weight lead, yet they are made to imprint on the rifling. How much wear do they do to a gun barrel?
Sure, hard lead doesn't flatten out or mushroom on contact with a target, not much anyway, but a .44 hole, or a .49 hole, or a .53 hole, or whatever is still devastating on any target. Even a .32 hole in a squirrel is like a cannon ball through a cape buffalo. My .490 wheel weight round balls pass completely through a deer or wild hog. Some drop immediately. Some run for a few dozen yards.
I use any scrap lead that I can find. Mostly wheel weights, but almost anything will do.

Others may take the opposite view. Experiment and find out for yourself.

THIS is true

 

[Ohio Rusty]

The real main issue is if you had to pull the ball with a ball puller. The ball puller might not penetrate deep enough to get a good grab on the ball like the ball pullers do with pure soft lead. Then you may need to resort to a CO2 unloading charger, or filling your barrel with grease to push the ball out .... is it worth all that hassle instead of just using pure lead ?? Just thinking outloud.
Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Stop using them tinker toys and get a pancake compressor. Just point he barrel in a safe direction.
The ball comes out real fast.

I take WW lead crank the furnace up to 1000 degrees and scoop all the tin that rises out.
Turns out about number 2 lead, so says my Sarco lead gauge.
Good enough for rifles.

 

[VADSLRAM]

Been using wheel weights for years. Free lead is the best lead.

 

[Juniata]

sigh. Again, I use wheel weight lead to cast round balls all the time. Sure, it is harder than pure lead. So what? A patched ball doesn't touch the rifling, and even if it did - it is still lead and not as hard as the steel gun barrel. Modern jacketed bullets are very hard especially when compared to wheel weight lead, yet they are made to imprint on the rifling. How much wear do they do to a gun barrel?
Sure, hard lead doesn't flatten out or mushroom on contact with a target, not much anyway, but a .44 hole, or a .49 hole, or a .53 hole, or whatever is still devastating on any target. Even a .32 hole in a squirrel is like a cannon ball through a cape buffalo. My .490 wheel weight round balls pass completely through a deer or wild hog. Some drop immediately. Some run for a few dozen yards.
I use any scrap lead that I can find. Mostly wheel weights, but almost anything will do.

Others may take the opposite view. Experiment and find out for yourself.

Amen.

 

[springfield art]

Just stick with tried-n-true pure lead.

 

[IanH]

For harder PRB in rifles you need a thinner patch or a steel loading rod and a good short and long starter with a big ball on it so you don't bruise your hand. The ball is imprinted by the patch and if done properly, actually upset slightly by being started into the rifling. This is much, much more difficult to do with lead-alloy wheel weight metal than pure or near pure soft scrap lead such as roof jacks, flashing, shower pan liners, clay pipe joint lead, cable sheathing, etc.

2% antimonial lead from a rimfire range trap is excellent for PRBs.

Hollow base bullets need to be dead soft to work properly.

 

[Rancocas]

Yes, hollow base bullets, such as a Minie ball, do need to be soft in order to function as designed to expand and fill the rifling grooves as the projectile passes down the barrel.
Also, I can see the merit of soft lead round balls when loading a revolver cylinder where you slice off a thin ring of lead as the ball is pushed into the cylinder. Although, I have used my wheel weight lead balls in my own replica 1860 Colt with no problem.
Perhaps there may be some benefit of soft lead when doing precision target shooting with precisely controlled and measured loads. Although, I am not fully convinced of that.
However, for general plinking and hunting purposes a hard lead round ball is fine in a rifle or a smoothbore.

With my .50 caliber rifles I use a .490 ball. I have never bothered to measure the thickness of my patches. I use what works, be it a commercial patch, pillow ticking, or a worn-out old shirt. One of my .50 rifles seems to have an exceptionally tight bore. I have never bothered to measure it. Instead of my usual .490 ball, I went with a .480 ball and that seems to work just fine in that particular rifle.

Neither, in general practice, do I use a short starter. Most of my rifle barrels are coned. Thumb pressure will push the patched ball down to just below the muzzle level of my rifle. The ramrod pushes it down the rest of the way. Most of the time I use a loading block, so once I center that with a ball over the rifle bore, I push the ramrod through the loading block and push the ball all the way down.
A short starter is just another piece of foofaraw that I don't need to carry.
Same with a priming horn. I prime directly from my powderhorn. I use 3F for everything.

Back in the days when I was competing in over-the-log shooting matches I used a .495 ball in my .50 heavy chunkgun. With a patch, that was tight fit, and I did use a short starter then. Even then, however, I was using my own cast wheel weight round balls.

What works for one, may not work for another. As I said above; "experiment and decide for yourself".

This is not rocket science, folks. Traditional muzzleloading is all about a technology that is hundreds of years old. Too many, I think, complicate the matter unnecessarily. Keep it simple.

 

[awreis]

Yes, hollow base bullets, such as a Minie ball, do need to be soft in order to function as designed to expand and fill the rifling grooves as the projectile passes down the barrel.
Also, I can see the merit of soft lead round balls when loading a revolver cylinder where you slice off a thin ring of lead as the ball is pushed into the cylinder. Although, I have used my wheel weight lead balls in my own replica 1860 Colt with no problem.
Perhaps there may be some benefit of soft lead when doing precision target shooting with precisely controlled and measured loads. Although, I am not fully convinced of that.
However, for general plinking and hunting purposes a hard lead round ball is fine in a rifle or a smoothbore.

With my .50 caliber rifles I use a .490 ball. I have never bothered to measure the thickness of my patches. I use what works, be it a commercial patch, pillow ticking, or a worn-out old shirt. One of my .50 rifles seems to have an exceptionally tight bore. I have never bothered to measure it. Instead of my usual .490 ball, I went with a .480 ball and that seems to work just fine in that particular rifle.

Neither, in general practice, do I use a short starter. Most of my rifle barrels are coned. Thumb pressure will push the patched ball down to just below the muzzle level of my rifle. The ramrod pushes it down the rest of the way. Most of the time I use a loading block, so once I center that with a ball over the rifle bore, I push the ramrod through the loading block and push the ball all the way down.
A short starter is just another piece of foofaraw that I don't need to carry.
Same with a priming horn. I prime directly from my powderhorn. I use 3F for everything.

Back in the days when I was competing in over-the-log shooting matches I used a .495 ball in my .50 heavy chunkgun. With a patch, that was tight fit, and I did use a short starter then. Even then, however, I was using my own cast wheel weight round balls.

What works for one, may not work for another. As I said above; "experiment and decide for yourself".

This is not rocket science, folks. Traditional muzzleloading is all about a technology that is hundreds of years old. Too many, I think, complicate the matter unnecessarily. Keep it simple.

I think you hit it on the nail for me. Over complication is what I tend to do with a lot of stuff. Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

It really depends on what gun and load you are shooting. I think it has all been described above.

 

[GBG]

My .490 wheel weight round balls pass completely through a deer or wild hog. Some drop immediately.

I like .570 to .715 water quenched WW RBs for hogs. IIRC one of the Victorian big game hunters recommended aiming for the largest bones, not vitals, when shooting hard lead RBs. A complete pass through, breaking both shoulders and the spine is about the most effective shot placement.

 

[Eutycus]

It's been said before, "hard lead never touches the rifling". The patch does that.

 

[necchi]

my question is

You have asked 3 questions from what you have read and a presumption as it applies to modern firearms.
I'll try,
1. "what does a harder lead do to the bore that makes it unusable"
Nothing.
2. "Possible make it wear more quickly"
Only if you use it improperly.
3. "If it's a little big, could use a slightly thinner patch to compensate for this"
You haven't shared with us what your shooting.
And the presumption,
"that it doesn't expand like pure lead when hunting but if all I am is shooting steel and paper,"

If all your shooting is steel and paper it's all about accuracy, Right?
An ethical hunter won't go into the field without and accurate tool to use for harvest.

So divest(tell us) what will you shoot(?) pop can's at 30ft? or 6" gongs at 100yrds, Round ball, conicals?(it matters)
Soft lead, allows the impartation of the rifling to the projectile when proper patch is included.
Harder lead, deeper rifling, twist rates ,all apply.

 

[Flint1]

I know alot of people have enjoyed great success using wheel weight lead, and they have the facts to back them up. I will only add what I read many, many years ago when starting out in muzzle loading. I believe this is in one of Sam Fadala's books. What I read is that wheel weight lead is too hard for muzzle loaders. True, the ball shouldn't touch the bore if patched properly. What I read was about a term called obduration. The round ball is NOT round when it exists the bore. The gases from the burning powder actually flatten the base of the ball. If wheel weight lead is too hard to expand as much as pure lead when it hits the target, it would appear to me it is too hard to flatten as much in the bore. I was given a huge supply of very soft lead so I don't have that problem about looking to use wheel weights, and in 43 years of muzzle loading I have never used wheel weights. I am not questioning the success of wheel weight shooters, just passing on something I read that 43 years ago on the subject.

 

[necchi]

@Flint1 , your right.
It's not that hard a thing to do.
Asking about lead hardness damage, worrying about lead hardness,, has so little to do with these wiki-lookups of basic questions and "click-click" memberships.
Why not just read the found source?
It's like there are basic question about "casting" before there is even understanding what a trigger is.!??
I'm sorry folk's, but my 4yr old Great grandchild knows that I cast lead,,
I can't grasp,, wiki look up bs.

 

[flconch53]

If you have wheel weight lead good on ya. This will be a mute point in the near future as wheel weights are more and more being made of zinc and other lead free metals.

 

[Ohio Rusty]

I have 5 or 6 buckets of wheelweight lead, but it is used for cast boolits for unmentionable guns, fishing sinkers and jig heads. For fishing jig heads, WW lead is better as when it hits a rock or bounces along the bottom, the WW lead doesn't deform easily allowing the paint to chip off as it is not soft. I used to have a musket ball mould and I would cast musket balls from WW's, tie a string to them and give them away to kids at events I was at. Those kids were really proud to walk around wearing a 'REAL' musketball. I have plenty of soft lead from lead pipes for roundballs for my guns.
Ohio Rusty ><>