Unknown rifle, possibly foreign.

[kreeves]

This rifle belonged to our grandfather who passed away this year. He never told the story of how he received it but he was a veteran of Korea and Vietnam. I'm not sure if he acquired this rifle from either campaign but I am having zero luck getting it identified and i'm hoping to get some help from you all.

 

[springfield art]

This rifle belonged to our grandfather who passed away this year. He never told the story of how he received it but he was a veteran of Korea and Vietnam. I'm not sure if he acquired this rifle from either campaign but I am having zero luck getting it identified and i'm hoping to get some help from you all.

Those stock marks appear to be Indian.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Photos of the breech area from the sides, top, and bottom will tell us more then the marks on the wood.

 

[TFoley]

The numbers are crudely cut and are Siamese, although some are backwards, as denoted by * - they are

1 4* 7* 5 6* 6*^

It appears to be devoid of a back sight and might therefore be a shotgun. Is the barrel smooth inside? If so, then it is a shotgun. Nothing to do with Korea, but possible acquired via a Montagnard connection in Vietnam.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

looks like any number of Belgian made shotguns imported and sold by hardware companies and mail order houses all over the world. Such things went for $2 or $3 in the 1880's. Closer pictures of lock, breech and under the breech, and a search for proof marks would tell a lot more.

 

[TFoley]

Since it appears that nobody is taking my post #4 seriously - here are the written numerals in the most common version of Siamese -

 

[LawrenceA]

To sum up what is above.
It is not an American firearm.
It is likely a Belgian Trade gun, with a walnut stock and no accommodation for a ramrod, that was probably owned by the ethnic minorities in the highland provinces of South East Asia and in particular Vietnam.
Clearer photos of the lock and breech area including any marks on the barrel, including under the wood, would help ascertain for sure.

 

[toot]

very interesting.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I met a guy decades ago that owned a gun shop in Maryland. In his younger days he had been on some diplomatic posts in Asia. While in India he would buy British & East India company muskets cheap as dirt and send them back to the states. He claimed to have sent nearly 1,000 back to the states in the early 1960's. many ended up in the hands of Civil war reenators, scavenged for parts etc. He still had several dozen of the nicer ones in his shop's back room and every year, he would take a few up to the Baltimore Antique Gun Show to sell to British dealers that came here looking for British militaria to take back to England. Could have been a similar story, or a GI bring back, even a tourist find..

 

[mhb]

TFoley is correct: the numbers are Siamese/Thai, and are likely a registration number. The arm is a pretty typical 'monkey gun', used by the various hilltribes for taking game, though this specimen appears to be somewhat nicer than average. The hill markets stocked seamless tubing of about 1/2" bore, which local 'gunsmiths' used to make-up such arms, which are smoothbore. The markets also stocked saltpeter and sulphur, for making powder, though the locals burned their own charcoal. The arms are percussion, though the 'nipple' is commonly of large diameter and flat on top. Fairly coarse shot was also sold, though the shooter could make his own. Local apothecaries made-up percussion compounds which were applied in dabs to sheets of paper, which were torn off and stuffed into the large recess in the hammer nose.

mhb - MIke

 

[kreeves]

Loving all of the information so far, would like to know as much as you guys can tell us. I should have asked more questions when he was alive and this wouldn't have been such a mystery.

 

[mhb]

Thanks for the additional photos. Yours really is a much better than average specimen. Workmanship is far above the usual, and considerable thought went into the construction of the piece: particularly noteworthy is the reinforcement of the breech area with extended and wrap-around plates on the sides and top. The inletting is good, and the visible screw heads are level with or slightly below the surrounding metal, whereas the usual specimen is made without any concern for such details.

mhb - MIke

 

[kreeves]

Thanks for the additional photos. Yours really is a much better than average specimen. Workmanship is far above the usual, and considerable thought went into the construction of the piece: particularly noteworthy is the reinforcement of the breech area with extended and wrap-around plates on the sides and top. The inletting is good, and the visible screw heads are level with or slightly below the surrounding metal, whereas the usual specimen is made without any concern for such details.

mhb - MIke

Age?

 

[mhb]

I don't know any way of accurately determining age of this specimen - such arms are almost certainly still being made (as they were when I left Thailand in 1991). The characters before he slash in the registration stamp would identify the changwat or amphur in which the arm was registered, but I doubt it would be feasible to trace it from this side of the pond. There are Thai shooters' organizations, some of which have web pages -perhaps you could obtain assistance from one of them. If your grandfather served in Vietnam, it is likely he acquired the arm at that time, and the hilltribes do not take much notice of national borders, so the fact that the arm was registered in Thailand does not prove that it was acquired there.

mhb - MIke