Underhammer Action

[Rifleball36]

Have any of you bought the underhammer action kit
from The log cabin Shop. If so did it come with instructions on harding and timpering. Also what did you think of the kit.
I was thinking about using one for a bench gun.
Thinks for any advice. :hatsoff:

 

[gmww]

Could you provide a link? I can't seem to find it when I search the Log cabin shop site.

 

[Bubba45]

Heres the Item # 42UHAK

 

[gmww]

Thank you Bubba.

The action looks like the one Muzzleloader builders supply makes for a little cheaper that last time I checked. If it's the same one it will require a lot of machine work. I have one that John Taylor finished for me. They are quite large in size. I am quite satisfied with the finished product.

You can check it out by googling Muzzleloader builders supply. Once there type underhammer in the search box.

 

[John Taylor]

I think it is the same one also. I don't think there are any plans or instructions. This action is not for the beginner. As is it is set up for a barrel that would be 1.5" diameter, good bench gun. This is the action that may have been stolen and there is a request from another member that we don't use it anymore.

 

[44-henry]

I built one from a set of castings I bought from the Log Cabin Shop many years ago. It is basically just castings with no instructions. Lot's of filing and heat treatment will be needed to make it look and work the part. I personally think you could build a better action from barstock without a whole lot more difficulty than assembling that one. Plus, as has been pointed out, it is better suited to large diameter barrels. I never was happy with the way the finished action looked on a 1 1/8" barrel I had made it for, I ended up selling the action at a gunshow and have never seen it again.

 

[gmww]

Here is the finished product that John Taylor did for me. Out of respect from the information given to John from another member, I won't purchase anymore of these. We found out after it was purchased.

 

[Tinker2]

John

"This is the action that may have been stolen and there is a request from another member that we don't use it anymore."

?? I must have missed that. You have a link to that?

Nice job on the one you did.



Tinker2

 

[Pork Chop]

This is the action that may have been stolen and there is a request from another member that we don't use it anymore.

As in stolen parts, or a copied design? Was it a protected design?

 

[rabbit03]

This is the action that may have been stolen and there is a request from another member that we don't use it anymore.

As in stolen parts, or a copied design? Was it a protected design?

The action belonged to Bob Mims! I have shot along side of Bob now for many years here in Texas. In fact I got an email from him just today. Bob is a great individual and he is the one that kicked our butts this past year at the State Championship in Texas!

I don't feel it is my place to tell this story so I will just hit the highlights of the facts. Bob had his castings at a foundry when the foundry was sold. The new owner claimed that the castings were now his and that is basically how all of Bob's hard work ended up for sale and others made the profits.

I too have one of his actions that I aquired a while back when I purchased a bench rifle. I told him about it and also told him even though the circumstances were the way they were, I was still proud to be shooting an action he disigned.

All things being equal, a boycott of all sales would be great, but all things are not equal are they.

My Bob Mims Underhammer Action is also being utilized on my new Light Bench/Cross Stick gun. The X Stick gun is also an 1 1/8 Green Mountain in .58 and has a 42 inch barrel. Some effort was made to keep it under the 14 lb weight limit but I did it and am headed to Phoenix soon to defend my title, oops I mean lucked out title.

I can tell you Bob is one heck of a guy as are all of the folks I have had the pleasure to shoot with all of these years. Many of the ones I shoot with have won National and State Titles and are just real good people to boot!! I am fortunate to have known them and be in their company, and not the least of them is Bob Mims.

rabbit03

 

[gmww]

Thanks Rabbit, I didn't know the full story and so I didn't want to try and explain it. Like I mentioned before, I found out after the purchase and I wont be buying anymore. :thumbsup:

 

[rabbit03]

Have any of you bought the underhammer action kit
from The log cabin Shop. If so did it come with instructions on harding and timpering. Also what did you think of the kit.
I was thinking about using one for a bench gun.
Thinks for any advice. :hatsoff:

I wrote and sent Mr. Bob Mims a copy of the post I made above. He wrote a short paragraph back (He is still not happy about being cheated out of his design)

Three of us (Charlie Hart and Von Ray Trotter) went together and cast those actions. I made all of the pattern except the spring which Charlie made. I did all of the paper work and a guy named Hunt in Chicago was our caster. The moulds cost $1,000 back about 1980 and were left with Hunt to. Hunt evidently sold out to deVaudereal and the next thing I knew, Log Cabin was selling the cast parts. I contacted both Hunt and deVaudereal and would have had to sue to get anywhere. de Vaudereal was especially ugly.

So that is from the Horses mouth if anyone is interested in knowing.


Bob Mims on the left and John L. Hinnant on the right

rabbit03

 

[John Taylor]

Thanks for the facts.

 

[Rifleball36]

rabbit03
Thanks for the reply. After reading your poat I will not buy the underhammer kit.
thanks,
Rifleball36

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Good Afternoon Alexander L. J. and All,

I am pleased that a number of the Forum Members will not buy the underhammer action kit that my good friend Bob Mims and his two friends designed, and then had stolen from them. Both the seller and buyer of the casting shop acted in at the least, unethically. Both knew that the castings and patterns were the paid for property of another person.

Hopefully this story will be circulated more widely until nobody will buy this action. Bob and I spend much time at the TMLRA Matches discussing all aspects of rifle building and other gunsmithing procedures.

Bob is a great guy and a fierce competitor. He usually shoots on the line down with Toney and me and has to endure our
wit(?) for 5 or 6 days at a time. It is amazing that Toney and I have not been the victims of an accidental discharge that just happen to find its way through both of us, at the same time.

Bob's story is an old, but not a new one. You gentlemen would be surprised, maybe shocked, to know the name of the person who flagrantly cheated me on a special order shaped stock and then kept the remainder of components. When I refused to accept a substandard refund, he kept all of the money. Now I have no useable stock, no component parts, and none of the money I sent him. He feels totally justified in his actions and probably sleeps well at night.

For those of you that want to try your hand at building an underhammer action, look on page 290 of Ned H. Robert's book, THE MUZZLELOADER CAPLOCK RIFLE.

Back during my days of teaching Machine Metalworking Procedures, a number of my students built this actions into complete rifles. They are not difficult to build and would work well on a wide range of barrel sizes.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

God and Texas

If you are not an NRA or NMLRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.

 

[Pork Chop]

I guess I don't understand why no lawsuit was brought in this case. It could have started out in small claims court based on the value of the casting.

 

[davy]

I guess I don't understand why no lawsuit was brought in this case. It could have started out in small claims court based on the value of the casting.

Its this simple Pork ... some folks simply operate on a higher level, and have much more class overall.

We all reap what we sow in this old world. Bob & the others ... some whom I have had the pleasure to meet, are in this elite category. You would value their friendship as well. :hmm:

Davy

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Good Morning Pork Chop,

Although David made an excellant point about the character of Bob Mims and his partners, the primary reason for not filing a law suit was distance.

Bob lived and still lives in Texas. The theft took place several states away. It was not economically feasible to travel that far to pursue a legal action that most likely would have delayed as long as possible with continuances.

Back in 1980, most small claim courts had a maximum limit of less than $500.00 for a claim. A number of states and localities did not even have small claims courts.

In addition the seller of the casting company was not willing to work with Bob to prove his claim.The seller had his money and did not consider this to be his problem. As far as I am concerned, he was an equal partner to the theft. He knew that he was selling property that did not belong to him.

That deal reminds me of the deal that defrauded Chief Joseph and the Nez Perz out of their ancestral land.

Today, one might be able to pursue an action through the ICC or fraud through the USPS system.

Now that this story is out, I hope it will spread, and there will be a great boycott against buying this action.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

God and Texas

If you are not an NRA or NMLRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.

 

[Pork Chop]

OK, that makes sense. I personally would have tried to find some way to go after them.

That having been said, I have no plans to buy one of those actions. :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

All of you should remember that virtually every state has a " Consumer Fraud statute" that provides public assistance from the State's Attorney General to help members of the public recover property and money taken through fraud, and theft( when its connected to a fraud.) You would be surprised how just getting a letter from the State Attorney General asking the businessman to explain his side of a complaint against him, causes many of these crooks to stop and make things rights. They don't want to have to hire a lawyer to fight with the Attorney General, and they really don't want the State nosing around the rest of their business.