uberti revolver help

[mewing6003]

I am at a loss. I have 2 uberti revolvers an 1862 police and a 1849 pocket. the problem I am having is with the between chamber rests. the so called "safety" for cap and ball revolvers. the hammer rests nicely on both revolvers on the notches and locks up good and tight. however, once the hammer is down on one of these, it will not rotate, they both lock up tight! If i only load 4 chambers and rest the hammer on the empty, i have no problems. I have stoned the bolt and the hand, and both revolvers are in time and the actions are nice and slick and fire each and every time. no drag on the cylinders, in fact on the 1849 pocket, there are absolutely no drag marks on the cylinder anywhere. I even sent the 1849 back to cabelas and got a replacement (and yes i know it is a replacement cause i scratched a little "x" on the inside of the grip.)

I own 4 other revolvers all Pietia, there is absolutely no problem with resting the hammer on one of the notches. just pull back the hammer and it slides right up to the next chamber. and i did the same thing with these revolvers, stoning the bolt, hand, etc.

is this just a uberti problem (or possibly are these "safety" notches on uberti revolvers a cosmetic historically accurate thing that are not meant to actually work) or am i doing something wrong?

before anyone asks, the wife and i do reenacting as confederate dismounted cav and yes we need all the shots we can get! :: :curse:

 

Do you have to take them apart to unlock them? How repeatable is this - does it happen between every nipple? You can put some layout blue on the parts, reassemble and repeat the process then inspect the parts.

I think your cylinder bolt fingers are not quite right and are catching on the hammer pawl that lifts and releases it to drop into the bolt slot. When you drop it on a nipple, the bolt gets past the pawl correctly but the safety position is not quite far enough for it to clear so it locks. In firing or lowering the hammer, the pawl has to slip over the near finger and get below it so the bolt will lift the next time the hammer is raised. I have seen the finger broken from being too sharp on top or the pawl not beveled enough on the lower surface. If you don't want to stone them, pump some 400g Clover compound into the guts, pull the nipples and dry fire at the wall for a few hours, then disassemble, clean VERY well, oil and reassemble. This may naturally cure the problem by inducing a little wear.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Are you saying that once you've set the hammer down on the safety pin, you then cannot re-cock the revolver? I've never run into that one. But if you're saying that you can't rotate the cylinder with the hammer down on the pin, then things are working properly. Personally, unless the pistol is in a flap holster, I don't feel all that secure using these "safeties". But that's just me. Come to think of it, with the exception of my Walkers, I don't think I'd
carry any of my guns with all the chambers loaded.

 

[mewing6003]

I do not have to take it apart to get the cylinder to move after it locks. i can pull the hammer back to just short of half cock and rotate the cylinder to the next chamber by hand. however it feels as if something is is just not quite right inside. not real rough, just some slight dragging.

Anvil, I have already replaced the bolt, but i think you might be onto something with the the bolt fingers catching on the hammer. I will try stoning them a bit and see what happens.

Russ, we all are required to use full flap holsters with our unit. I have never seen an AD at any event (except with a union unit with a triple charged musket, but thats another story), we are all pretty careful.

Thanks for the help, hopefully this will cure my problem!

 

[54ball]

I own a Uberti 1851 and it does the same thing. When I rest the hammer between nipples the pistol will not cock easily with out rolling the cylinder by hand. I think placing the hammer down between nipples puts the pistol in neutral, out of time, thus the cylinder must be rolled to engage properly. I think the area between the nipples was never intended to be a "safety notch" even on original Colts. The posibilty of accidental dischare is greater. Is this safety notch seen on later guns like the SAA? No. They rested the hammer on an empty chamber. In the long run I think you will get more satisfaction, be safer and more historically accurate if you load 4 and rest on an empty.

 

[huck]

My Uberti 1858 Remington cocks just fine from the "safety notches". Whether I set the hammer on an empty chamber, or set it in the safety notches, I can then pull the hammer back fully and it cocks and advances the cylinder to the next chamber - no problem.

Is it possible they are accurately copying the original action, and that's the way it was designed?

 

[mewing6003]

I just stopped at a buddys house on the way home, he has a Uberti 1858 remington, checked his out, and low and behold, his works fine from the "saftey" notch. One thing though, on the 1858, there is not a pin for the hammer to rest on, but a milled detent on the cylinder where the hammer rests. The hammer seems to go further down on this than what mine do on the pin. I wonder if this makes a difference? Going to check out the possibility that the hammer notch may be the culprit. Maybe it is not cut deep enough to clear the pin.

 

My 1860 Uberti cocks fine from the safety pin position and I typically carry it in a full flap holster with six loaded.

I also own an original 1860 Colt so I looked at it after reading this thread again. Although it is worn from a lot of shooting, you can still see a vertical bump between each nipple and a corresponding vertical slot in the hammer. Due to the excessive wear, it will not stay locked and slides easily over to battery. I don't know if Sam Colt designed it as a safety for a full cylinder but considering how long it took to load a C&B, I'll bet it was supposed to be a six shooter - not a five shooter. Due to the notch, I believe Remingtons were definitely designed to be carried fully loaded and the hammer between nipples.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I firmly believe that these revolvers were meant to be carried fully loaded and using the pins as safeties. There is no way a soldier going in harm's way or a civilian facing long odds out on the plains would give up that extra
shot. I have tried to get my Colts (second generation) to rotate off the pins and they simply will not do it. The hammer MUST be at least partially cocked to allow it to happen. Most old holsters and all modern ones that are properly designed for C&B revolvers completely shroud the hammer and prevent an errant tree branch from cocking the revolver while it is holstered. They are perhaps better thought of as scabards than holsters. The old timers knew exactly what they were doing. Quick draw in the modern sense wasn't in the cards, but if you had showed up in 1855-1870 with a modern rig out on the plains, they'd most likely have thought you were bonkers. And on a day to day basis, your piece would have taken an awful beating.

 

[Gatofeo]

As I understand you, your revolver does this:
a. Place the hammer down, resting on a pin between the nipples.
b. The cylinder should NOT rotate so that a cap is lying under the hammer.
c. With the hammer down on a safety pin, the hammer cannot be re-cocked without using your other hand to rotate the cylinder.
d. Doing this with your spare hand, the cylinder moves slightly grudgingly and it feels as though something is dragging.

I've never encountered this problem before. I have Colt 2nd generation 1851 Navy, a Pietta-made copy of the 1860 Colt and an Armi San Marcos copy of the 1862 Colt Pocket Police.

If you're experiencing the above problem with both revolvers, I'd say that was very unusual.
Let me offer a few educated guesses:

1. The bolt is not dropping down far enough to clear the cylinder as the revolver is being cocked.
2. Burrs inside the channel in the frame, through which the hand comes through to rotate the cylinder.
3. A wedge driven in too tight. Driven in too tightly, the wedge will actually bring the face of the cylinder hard against the rear of the barrel. This can cause dragging. Try backing your wedge out a bit, with a few lights taps from a nylon-faced hammer or rubber mallet. Do NOT use a steel hammer or you'll mar it. Even a brass hammer will mar it over time, so it's best to use a nylon faced hammer.
4. Burrs or gunk in the guts, especially around the bolt, hand or hammer notches.
5. A trigger that is somehow sticking against the hammer. Colt percussion revolvers have two notches: half cock for loading and full cock for firing.
Could there be crud or a burr against which the trigger is bearing, frustrating efforts to cock?

How does it function when fired? Any problems cocking it from an empty nipple position? If not, but you have problems cocking it from a safety pin position, I'd guess that something was out of time, or a burr(s) or crud were interfering.

When the Peacemaker was introduced in 1873, a third notch was added as a safety. With the trigger in this third notch, the hammer is raised just above the cartridges. It is meant to be a safety but it's dangerous to carry a Colt Single Action Army this way, as there's not a lot of metal in the safety notch and a sharp blow on the hammer horn can shear off that notch and allow the hammer to go forward, firing a cartridge.
This is why the old-timers carried five cartridges in the Peacemaker, with the hammer on an empty chamber.
But the percussion Colts don't have that third notch, that raises the hammer slightly above the cap. That's why the pins are there, for the hammer to glom onto.
Frankly, I'm rather stumped. Especially since you report TWO revolvers are doing this. I'd troubleshoot the above diagnosises.
Let us know what you find out. We're all interested.

 

[mec]

here are colt's original instructions. Note the sentence about the intermediate pins

The problem could be a hesitancy of the bolt to release from the hammer cam in certain positions. The area in the picture is generally cut at an angle to facilitate this. I have no experience with dealing with those problems and this may be all wet. Might check it out though

 

[Curtis Lee]

As I understand you, your revolver does this:
a. Place the hammer down, resting on a pin between the nipples.
b. The cylinder should NOT rotate so that a cap is lying under the hammer.
c. With the hammer down on a safety pin, the hammer cannot be re-cocked without using your other hand to rotate the cylinder.
d. Doing this with your spare hand, the cylinder moves slightly grudgingly and it feels as though something is dragging.

I've never encountered this problem before. I have Colt 2nd generation 1851 Navy, a Pietta-made copy of the 1860 Colt and an Armi San Marcos copy of the 1862 Colt Pocket Police.

If you're experiencing the above problem with both revolvers, I'd say that was very unusual.
Let me offer a few educated guesses:

1. The bolt is not dropping down far enough to clear the cylinder as the revolver is being cocked.
2. Burrs inside the channel in the frame, through which the hand comes through to rotate the cylinder.
3. A wedge driven in too tight. Driven in too tightly, the wedge will actually bring the face of the cylinder hard against the rear of the barrel. This can cause dragging. Try backing your wedge out a bit, with a few lights taps from a nylon-faced hammer or rubber mallet. Do NOT use a steel hammer or you'll mar it. Even a brass hammer will mar it over time, so it's best to use a nylon faced hammer.
4. Burrs or gunk in the guts, especially around the bolt, hand or hammer notches.
5. A trigger that is somehow sticking against the hammer. Colt percussion revolvers have two notches: half cock for loading and full cock for firing.
Could there be crud or a burr against which the trigger is bearing, frustrating efforts to cock?

How does it function when fired? Any problems cocking it from an empty nipple position? If not, but you have problems cocking it from a safety pin position, I'd guess that something was out of time, or a burr(s) or crud were interfering.

When the Peacemaker was introduced in 1873, a third notch was added as a safety. With the trigger in this third notch, the hammer is raised just above the cartridges. It is meant to be a safety but it's dangerous to carry a Colt Single Action Army this way, as there's not a lot of metal in the safety notch and a sharp blow on the hammer horn can shear off that notch and allow the hammer to go forward, firing a cartridge.
This is why the old-timers carried five cartridges in the Peacemaker, with the hammer on an empty chamber.
But the percussion Colts don't have that third notch, that raises the hammer slightly above the cap. That's why the pins are there, for the hammer to glom onto.
Frankly, I'm rather stumped. Especially since you report TWO revolvers are doing this. I'd troubleshoot the above diagnosises.
Let us know what you find out. We're all interested.

THANK YOU for explanation.I have wondering why percussion repos don't have that third notch.

 

[sqqy14]

This forum is for Percussion rifles, this should be in the Pistol forum.

 

[Dude]

None of mine do that. The Pietta 1860, the second gen dragoon or 1851, or the Uberti Walker. Never noticed before the Walker has only one safety pin.

My bet is the bolt is a little slow to retract. When the hand tries to rotate the cylinder the bolt is still locking it in place.

 

[Bad Karma]

The bolt leg is not resetting on the cam. Stone the leg gently until it does. Kuhnhausens book shows the process.

 

[Old Grunt]

From my limited experience,the smaller replica pocket models are just more finicky then the larger revolvers,and take more polishing to get working correctly.

 

[Bad Karma]

From my limited experience,the smaller replica pocket models are just more finicky then the larger revolvers,and take more polishing to get working correctly.

I wonder if the OP ever solved this problem?

 

[55tulle]

I have two Urberti 1860 Navies.
One can be used with the hammer starting in the safety notch (pin), and shot as you would expect. No limit to how often you use the safety pin.
My other - same gun - cannot be cocked once the hammer sets down on the pin. Nothing frees it up, except pulling the wedge and moving the barrel ahead a slight amount.
A trace of wear on the cylinder face shows that the wedge holds the barrel too close to the cylinder.
Two possible cures for this.
Turn the cylinder post out 1/2 turn. With the wedge snug where it should be, that would make enough clearance. The threads are fine enough so a half turn would be about right.
Or
Tale down the cylinder face .008 -.012". About a patch thickness. Maybe less.
I may do that. Trying and fitting as I go, of course.
I tried getting new internal parts, but no cure. Then I looked for other causes.
It was the cylinder face rubbing on the breech. No clearance when trying to pull back the hammer from the safety pin My other (identical?) gun had some clearance and worked fine.
So there you go, factory machines improperly set, and no one watching/ checking.
Except the the computer.

 

[Old Grunt]

I wonder if the OP ever solved this problem?

. I sure hope so,I never noticed thread was 20 years old until your reply,and I looked at OP date

 

[Bad Karma]

. I sure hope so,I never noticed thread was 20 years old until your reply,and I looked at OP date

Hate when that happens but it seems to happen more frequently since they added “similar threads” down below. A great feature though…