Okay, so sandpaper was invented in 1834. Does anyone know how the early powder horns with turned plugs...presumably made on a pole lathe...attained such a smooth, sand paper-like finish? I understand old timers used scrapers on gun stocks, but can't see how that would work on many of the plugs I've seen. My grandfather had a few handed down horns with such plugs.... I could duplicate them on a modern lathe aided by the use of sand paper, but would really like to know how it was done prior to this invention. Any thoughts out there gents?
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Turned powder horn plugs
- Thread starter Jim Vatt
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There are many different methods for getting a smooth polished finish, including sand stone, wood shavings held hard against the spinning surface of the wood, metal filings in a heavy piece of cloth, spin scraping, metal bar burnishing etc.
These were common methods used for many other smoothing applications. Your date of sandpaper being officially invented in the 1830's is probably correct, but there were craftsman using their own homespun variations of sandpaper way before then.
These were common methods used for many other smoothing applications. Your date of sandpaper being officially invented in the 1830's is probably correct, but there were craftsman using their own homespun variations of sandpaper way before then.
ohio ramrod
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Actually scrapers ,either glass or steel will leave a finer finish than any but the finest (1200 grit or finer ) sand papers. Many probate records of early gun smiths list" pieces of broken glass" in the tools. When I make wooden pens I use fist a steel scraper then leather to "burn in" shellac and wax. A heavy pressure will work as well as a high speed to burn in the shellac. :hmm:
Glad I came across this, I'm working on two plugs now for two horns I've been reworking.
CrackStock
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Have you seen the lathe built by Dick Toone of the Horn Guild?
Link
Link
Green wood works easier and there are things which can be done to make horn work easier too.
He uses proper tools which are different than our modern gouges. The spring lathe can provide respectable rpms to produce some quality objects.
See this video for a bowl turning.
Link
Not sure where you came up with that date for the invention of sandpaper, but I understood that it has been around for centuries and some late methods of producing it were patented which gives the false impression that it is modern. Maybe not exactly as we use it today, but in varied forms.
Files also work.
I am also not convinced that spring pole lathes were the only method of operating lathes. Water power and horse power were used for similar purposes at times, but I will agree that the spring pole was likely most common in small areas.
CS
Link
Link
Green wood works easier and there are things which can be done to make horn work easier too.
He uses proper tools which are different than our modern gouges. The spring lathe can provide respectable rpms to produce some quality objects.
See this video for a bowl turning.
Link
Not sure where you came up with that date for the invention of sandpaper, but I understood that it has been around for centuries and some late methods of producing it were patented which gives the false impression that it is modern. Maybe not exactly as we use it today, but in varied forms.
Files also work.
I am also not convinced that spring pole lathes were the only method of operating lathes. Water power and horse power were used for similar purposes at times, but I will agree that the spring pole was likely most common in small areas.
CS
George said:
No. Sharks were not invented until late in the 19th century. :shocked2: :wink:
Actually, yes. Also rotten stone and many types of reeds that picked up sand in the stems. Brick dust and lots more. Folks back in the day were pretty resourceful. Some still are.
First of all , thanks to all of you guys for your input.
Yes, I've seen some of Dick Toone's videos, but never got to actually see the lathe in action. Couldn't get to Schoenbrunn this past October...I heard he had it there. His lathe is sort of the inspiration for my question.
Again, :bow: many thanks!
Yes, I've seen some of Dick Toone's videos, but never got to actually see the lathe in action. Couldn't get to Schoenbrunn this past October...I heard he had it there. His lathe is sort of the inspiration for my question.
Again, :bow: many thanks!
As stated early types of sandpaper were used. In Sheffield, in the cutlery trade there were wood buffing wheels to which leather was glued. A grit or polishing compound was applied and then the blade given a high polish. All that the sand paper did was glue the grit to paper as a convenience. I'd just use sand paper- or as others said- a scraper.
CrackStock
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Martin Greenhorn said:
Mr. Toone is a great guy and his lathe is fun to watch. He has demonstrated the lathe at Dixon's for several years in a row so you might consider that as a means of seeing it and speaking with him. He shares freely. The annual horn dinner - during Dixon's is another opportunity to meet many others in the horn making world.
Here he is at the Horn Dinner:
I helped him pull the components out of the minivan in 2014 and get the pieces to their location near Roland's horn table. The assembly is clever and efficient.
I cannot say it enough - everyone in this hobby should attend Dixon's at least once. The people are interesting; the lessons are amazing and free; you will see tools, items and materials in great abundance. And you will have a great time.
The efforts are greatly appreciated!
CS
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OK we get it! ... You should be on Dixon's PR payroll!.... :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
When Explore Park near Roanoke, VA was open and had a functioning history trail, I used to volunteer at the Vause 1750's fort. It was based on an original Vause family's fort about 30-miles from Explore Park and was completely made by hand with period tools. It consisted of a 2-story log and daubing house, two bunkhouses, covered work area between the two, and a full-size walk-in smokehouse, all within a pole-built stockade.
The buildings were daubed (chinked) with a combination of mud and deer hair and that daubing would be refreshed once a year. We hosted a number of public events there throughout the year. One weekend Eddie Goode, the gentleman who ran the fort, set up his foot powered lathe.
It was simple and ingenious and he'd found some primary documentation that described it well enough he could build one (he was a carpenter by trade). He would use a sapling or small tree for the spring to run it. He would step on the pedal and that would spin the lathe while the sapling bent down. When he let up on the pedal, the sapling would straighten out and spin the lathe in the other direction. It worked surprisingly well. It's always cool to see things done to an extremely high degree of quality using tools and methods that they used in the 18th Century.
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan
The buildings were daubed (chinked) with a combination of mud and deer hair and that daubing would be refreshed once a year. We hosted a number of public events there throughout the year. One weekend Eddie Goode, the gentleman who ran the fort, set up his foot powered lathe.
It was simple and ingenious and he'd found some primary documentation that described it well enough he could build one (he was a carpenter by trade). He would use a sapling or small tree for the spring to run it. He would step on the pedal and that would spin the lathe while the sapling bent down. When he let up on the pedal, the sapling would straighten out and spin the lathe in the other direction. It worked surprisingly well. It's always cool to see things done to an extremely high degree of quality using tools and methods that they used in the 18th Century.
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan
CrackStock
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horner75 said:
:grin:
:surrender:
Guilty as charged - Not of being on the payroll, but I do crow about it.
My horn making buddy tried to drag me there for years and finally succeeded once. It was so good that I went 3 years in a row. Only missed once since and regretted that - just could not get off of work.
I learned so much and pressed my projects because of it. All for just the price of getting there and $2 dollars parking. Pretty good deal.
And yes, I make it a point to buy some things from Dixon's in thanks for hosting this annual event.
CS
CrackStock
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Yes - that is the basic concept of the spring pole lathe. I would like to see his plans as well. At some point I intend to assemble one and do period horn making demonstrations.
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